Lifestyle > Train of Thought
I Just Got Back From 3 More Days
Woodrow:
--- Quote from: Thul Hijjah 1425 A.H. on January 31, 2005, 01:55:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Woodrow on January 31, 2005, 07:49:15 AM ---Question: Do you see much hate literature in the mosques you visit?
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no
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You sure about that?
NEW REPORT ON SAUDI GOVERNMENT PUBLICATIONS IN U.S.
WASHINGTON, DC, January 28, 2005- Freedom House's Center for Religious Freedom released today a new report exposing the dissemination of hate propaganda in America by the government of Saudi Arabia.
The 89-page report, "Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosques," is based on a year-long study of over two hundred original documents, all disseminated, published or otherwise generated by the government of Saudi Arabia and collected from more than a dozen mosques in the United States.
The propagation of hate ideology by Saudi Arabia is known to be worldwide, but its occurrence within the United States has received scant attention until now. Within worldwide Sunni Islam, followers of Saudi Arabia's extremist Wahhabi ideology are a distinct minority, as is evident by the millions of Muslims who have chosen to make America their home and are upstanding, law-abiding citizens and neighbors.
The report concludes that the Saudi government propaganda examined reflects a "totalitarian ideology of hatred that can incite to violence," and the fact that it is "being mainstreamed within our borders through the efforts of a foreign government, namely Saudi Arabia, demands our urgent attention." The report finds: "Not only does the government of Saudi Arabia not have a right - under the First Amendment or any other legal document - to spread hate ideology within U.S. borders, it is committing a human rights violation by doing so."
Such publications that "advocate an ideology of hatred have no place in a nation founded on religious freedom and toleration," write James Woolsey, chairman of the board of Freedom House, in the foreword to the report.
Among the key findings of the report:
· Various Saudi government publications gathered for this study, most of which are in Arabic, assert that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to hate Christians and Jews and warn against imitating, befriending, or helping them in any way, or taking part in their festivities and celebrations;
· The documents promote contempt for the United States because it is ruled by legislated civil law rather than by totalitarian Wahhabi-style Islamic law. They condemn democracy as un-Islamic;
· The documents stress that when Muslims are in the lands of the unbelievers, they must behave as if on a mission behind enemy lines. Either they are there to acquire new knowledge and make money to be later employed in the jihad against the infidels, or they are there to proselytize the infidels until at least some convert to Islam. Any other reason for lingering among the unbelievers in their lands is illegitimate, and unless a Muslim leaves as quickly as possible, he or she is not a true Muslim and so too must be condemned. For example, a document in the collection for the "Immigrant Muslim" bears the words "Greetings from the Cultural Attache in Washington, D.C." of the Embassy of Saudi Arabia, and is published by the government of Saudi Arabia. In an authoritative religious voice, it gives detailed instructions on how to "hate" the Christian and Jew: Never greet them first. Never congratulate the infidel on his holiday. Never imitate the infidel. Do not become a naturalized citizen of the United States. Do not wear a graduation gown because this imitates the infidel;
· One insidious aspect of the Saudi propaganda examined is its aim to replace traditional and moderate interpretations of Islam with extremist Wahhabism, the officially-established religion of Saudi Arabia. In these documents, other Muslims, especially those who advocate tolerance, are condemned as infidels. The opening fatwa in one Saudi embassy-distributed book, published by the Saudi Air Force, responds to a question about a Muslim preacher in a European mosque who taught that it is not right to condemn Jews and Christians as infidels. The Saudi state cleric's reply rebukes the Muslim cleric: "He who casts doubts about their infidelity leaves no doubt about his." Since, under Saudi law, "apostates" from Islam can be sentenced to death, this is an implied death threat against the tolerant Muslim imam, as well as an incitement to vigilante violence;
· Sufi and Shiite Muslims are viciously condemned;
· For a Muslim who fails to uphold the Saudi Wahhabi sect's sexual mores (i.e. through homosexual activity or heterosexual activity outside of marriage), the edicts published by the Saudi government's Ministry of Islamic Affairs, and found in American mosques advise, "it would be lawful for Muslims to spill his blood and to take his money;"
· Regarding those who convert out of Islam, the Saudi Ministry of Islamic Affairs explicitly asserts, they "should be killed;"
· Saudi textbooks and other publications in the collection, propagate a Nazi-like hatred for Jews, treat the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact, and avow that the Muslim's duty is to eliminate the state of Israel;
· Regarding women, the Saudi publications instruct that they should be veiled, segregated from men and barred from certain employment and roles;
The report states: "While the government of Saudi Arabia claims to be ‘updating' or reforming its textbooks and study materials within the Kingdom, its publications propagating an ideology of hatred remain plentiful in some prominent American mosques and Islamic centers, and continue to be a principal resource available to students of Islam within the United States."
The research, translation and principle analysis of the materials for the report were carried out by both Muslims and non-Muslims who wish to remain anonymous for reasons of security. Some 90 percent of the publications are in Arabic; two independent translators reviewed each Arabic document. This project was undertaken after many Muslims requested the Center's help in exposing Saudi extremism in the hope of freeing their communities from ideological strangulation.
You can read the full report here. It's very scary stuff.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/publications/Saudi%20Report/FINAL%20FINAL.pdf
TraceOneInfinite:
The only thing I'm being taught to hate or dislike as a Muslim is oppression. And I didn't even have to be taught that by any religion.
Woodrow:
--- Quote from: Thul Hijjah 1425 A.H. on January 31, 2005, 02:39:16 PM ---The only thing I'm being taught to hate or dislike as a Muslim is oppression. And I didn't even have to be taught that by any religion.
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So what about the oppression of people from other religions under Sharia?
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: Woodrow on January 31, 2005, 02:43:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Thul Hijjah 1425 A.H. on January 31, 2005, 02:39:16 PM ---The only thing I'm being taught to hate or dislike as a Muslim is oppression. And I didn't even have to be taught that by any religion.
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So what about the oppression of people from other religions under Sharia?
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First of all, the Sharia was pieced together by (imperfect man) certian scholars, many of whom have disagreed on certain items, and will continue to disagree, and is not always applied correctly. Much of what you see in the Sharia is not from the Noble Qu'ran. For example, this whole thing about someone being killed for leaving Islam is not found in the Qu'ran. Infact, the Qu'ran states that there is no compulsion in religion, and consistently reinforces that what makes man special is that Allah has given him the free will to choose, so no man should ever take away someone's right to choose their religion.
Much of the Sharia law has been derived by scholars, and is from the various traditions of the Prophet Muhammad, things that he may have said or done, that have been passed down from generation to generation, and have been many times altered and manipulated by man. The Hadith science is not perfect. The highest form of giudance for Muslims is the Noble Qu'ran. The Qu'ran is the words of Allah. The Qu'ran has been protected from manipulation by Allah, it was revealed in a form that was easy to memorize, so the Muslims memorized and perserved it through an oral tradition.
Still, do not think negetively on Islamic government. During the times when Muslims still had a Caliphate, and a Muslim Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Christians and Jews were allowed to administer to their own laws in their cities. The only requirement was that they pay taxes, just as you and I are required to pay taxes in this country. The Muslims were already paying their own religious tax, Muslims are required to pay a tax in the Noble Qu'ran. Infact, Jews even experienced their golden age in art and literature under Muslim rule in Spain. Jews will readily admit to this.
Woodrow:
--- Quote from: Thul Hijjah 1425 A.H. on January 31, 2005, 03:09:36 PM ---First of all, the Sharia was pieced together by (imperfect man) certian scholars, many of whom have disagreed on certain items, and will continue to disagree, and is not always applied correctly. Much of what you see in the Sharia is not from the Noble Qu'ran.
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That's funny, I can find multiple examples all over the internet (many from Islamic web sites) stating that Sharia is derived directly from the Koran, the Hadith, and the Sunnah. To say it doesn't all come from the Koran may be true, but either you don't understand your own religion, or you're deliberately trying to misguide people. No Taqiyya Please. Also, if there's so much wrong with the Sharia, why is it praticed in the "home" of Islam, Saudi Arabia?
--- Quote from: Thul Hijjah 1425 A.H. on January 31, 2005, 03:09:36 PM ---For example, this whole thing about someone being killed for leaving Islam is not found in the Qu'ran. Infact, the Qu'ran states that there is no compulsion in religion, and consistently reinforces that what makes man special is that Allah has given him the free will to choose, so no man should ever take away someone's right to choose their religion.
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It may not be found in the Koran, but it's pratcied in a majority of Muslim countries. What you fail to mention about the "compulsion" verse is that it's overridden by subsequent Koranic verses(9:73 for starters). The way you speak, you claim that there is only one religion, and everybody is muslim (remember the moon and sun are both muslim talk?). How can there be "compulsion" when you say things like that?
--- Quote from: Thul Hijjah 1425 A.H. on January 31, 2005, 03:09:36 PM ---Still, do not think negetively on Islamic government. During the times when Muslims still had a Caliphate, and a Muslim Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Christians and Jews were allowed to administer to their own laws in their cities. The only requirement was that they pay taxes, just as you and I are required to pay taxes in this country. The Muslims were already paying their own religious tax, Muslims are required to pay a tax in the Noble Qu'ran. Infact, Jews even experienced their golden age in art and literature under Muslim rule in Spain. Jews will readily admit to this.
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This is an outright lie. You're telling me that jizya and zakat were essentially the same? Do some reading.
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