West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: GangstaBoogy on June 14, 2007, 09:15:06 PM
-
Sorry to rain in on the Spurs parade, and sorry to make another Kobe/Shaq thread, but this must be said...
Take a look at Tim Duncan's achievements: rookie of the year, 2 time regular season MVP, 3 times finals MVP, 4 time NBA champion. With a resume like that, he could've easily inflated his head and taken on a big shot attitude. And he could've easily went out there and played hard only to out-due his hot young teammate. But he didn't because he's a true winner.
At this point in his career, Duncan realizes that winning championships is everything. He already has the personal accolades. Shaq never grew to that point, because to him, being "the man" was always more important than winning it all. He tore apart what could've been a deadly dynasty (and possibly could've re-written Jordan's part in NBA history) with the Orlando Magic because he didn't want Penny to be though of as equal as him. He re-enacted that same childish attitude in 2003 when Kobe was being looked at as not only the best player on the Lakers, but as the best player in the NBA.
Kobe is obviously better than Tony Parker. Unfortunately, he was never given the opportunity to go out there and be the man. He was always being forced into Shaq's fat shadow because he [Shaq] wanted all the credit for himself. Sad. Had he had a Tim Duncan mindset, that might be our team out there tonight holding up a Larry O'brien trophy.
Congratulations Tony Parker and the Spurs.
-
Well, Shaq in his prime was FAR more dominant and spectacular that Duncan has ever been, but DUncan is consistent, has no ego, and just gets shit done. He doesn't give a fuck about points, being the man, etc, he just wants to play ball and win 'chips.
I agree with a lot of what you say GangstaBoogy, but it wasn't all SHaq's fault; both SHAQ AND KOBE have huge fucking ego's, were both part of the problem, whereas neither Parker or Duncan have real egos.
Kobe and Shaq have possibly the two biggest ego's in the league; if they could've put that shit aside, they would've won a couple more titles. EVen if Kobe's story is true, why didn't Kobe make a stand and say he'd leave to if they were gonna trade Shaq? WHy? Because Kobe wanted to be the man, and you and i both know he PUBLICLY spoke out a few teams about how he was underutilized and wanted to be the man.......it would've came in time, like how it did with Wade and Shaq in Miami.
ANd fuck, can we just let the Lakers rest in peace? They lost in the first fucking round, and its been Kobe this, Shaq that, Lakers, one rebound, trade me, don't trade me, I will play on Mars if i have to, no wait........I love L.A and wanna stay :'(
-
Better ? Naw.. just the most unselfish and clever leader of all time....
-
I finally agree with BabyG 100%... :o
Well, actually, Shaq in his prime would still own Duncan in his prime...But Duncan built his legacy with brilliance. Shaq coulda' been the greatest ever...PeACe
-
Well, Shaq in his prime was FAR more dominant and spectacular that Duncan has ever been, but DUncan is consistent, has no ego, and just gets shit done. He doesn't give a fuck about points, being the man, etc, he just wants to play ball and win 'chips.
I agree with a lot of what you say GangstaBoogy, but it wasn't all SHaq's fault; both SHAQ AND KOBE have huge fucking ego's, were both part of the problem, whereas neither Parker or Duncan have real egos.
Kobe and Shaq have possibly the two biggest ego's in the league; if they could've put that shit aside, they would've won a couple more titles. EVen if Kobe's story is true, why didn't Kobe make a stand and say he'd leave to if they were gonna trade Shaq? WHy? Because Kobe wanted to be the man, and you and i both know he PUBLICLY spoke out a few teams about how he was underutilized and wanted to be the man.......it would've came in time, like how it did with Wade and Shaq in Miami.
ANd fuck, can we just let the Lakers rest in peace? They lost in the first fucking round, and its been Kobe this, Shaq that, Lakers, one rebound, trade me, don't trade me, I will play on Mars if i have to, no wait........I love L.A and wanna stay :'(
The problem with what you're claiming is that Kobe was able to put his ego aside to win titles. He was willing to defer to Shaq for years, even when he was the best in the league, while staying in top shape and conditioning religiously. And why would Kobe make a stand for Shaq? Shaq wanted 30 mill a year, he wouldn't negotiate! On top of that, Shaq was always showing up fat and out of shape, taking extensive time off for bitch-made injuries, and bitching about Kobe getting too much attention and what not...Shaq played not only the Lakers, but he played himself as well...BabyG is finally right...PeACe
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
Good point man; however, the thing with Duncan is he is only 31 and likely has more titles in him. Shaq? Not likely, unless he gets his shit together.
Still, Shaq at his peak was far more dominant than Duncan in his prime, this is not debatable.
7even: You are exactly right, some peeps around here continuosly forget how brutal Kobe was in that final, while Shaq was the only real consistent player in the series. Yes, he had trouble with Wallace, but he was still the best LAker by far.
-
Shaq is still #1
(Don't worry Shaq not all of us have short term memory)
(http://www.angelfire.com/vamp/shaqjunk/shaq-w.gif)
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
Good point man; however, the thing with Duncan is he is only 31 and likely has more titles in him. Shaq? Not likely, unless he gets his shit together.
Still, Shaq at his peak was far more dominant than Duncan in his prime, this is not debatable.
See, you guys should consider two things that made Duncan the guy he is now:
- he was drafted by a team who already had one of the best big men of all time in the roster, the Admiral. He made Duncan's life easier.
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Those two things, mixed with the fact he's selfish by himself and that he's a silent leader makes him what he is.
Shaq lived a totally different life and career. He was signed by the L.A. Lakers in one of the most memorable moves of all time. He had the keys of L.A. in his hands. He was the boss of the most important franchise ever. And, like you guys said, when he was on his prime he was UNSTOPPABLE.
I like them both.
Let's say Duncan and Shaq are the two best big men i've ever seen playing (i know there are some people better than them in the history of the NBA, MAYBE, but i'm talking about guys i've actually watched playing, live. So guys who played in the last 20 years, basically. Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq. This one is the magic trio. If you talk about one of those three you're talking about a legend).
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
The difference is that Shaq wasn't willing to do for KOBE BRYANT what he was willing to do for DWYANE WADE...That should be self-evident to you, being a Laker fan and all....
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
Good point man; however, the thing with Duncan is he is only 31 and likely has more titles in him. Shaq? Not likely, unless he gets his shit together.
Still, Shaq at his peak was far more dominant than Duncan in his prime, this is not debatable.
See, you guys should consider two things that made Duncan the guy he is now:
- he was drafted by a team who already had one of the best big men of all time in the roster, the Admiral. He made Duncan's life easier.
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Those two things, mixed with the fact he's selfish by himself and that he's a silent leader makes him what he is.
Shaq lived a totally different life and career. He was signed by the L.A. Lakers in one of the most memorable moves of all time. He had the keys of L.A. in his hands. He was the boss of the most important franchise ever. And, like you guys said, when he was on his prime he was UNSTOPPABLE.
I like them both.
Let's say Duncan and Shaq are the two best big men i've ever seen playing (i know there are some people better than them in the history of the NBA, MAYBE, but i'm talking about guys i've actually watched playing, live. So guys who played in the last 20 years, basically. Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq. This one is the magic trio. If you talk about one of those three you're talking about a legend).
NOOO. The main difference is that Duncan conditioned and kept himself in shape, and didn't have the same primaddonna "me first" attitude that Shaq had...Had Shaq kept his shit together, he could possibly be known as the greatest player to ever play the game nowadays. He unquestionably had the tools to surpass Kareem as the greatest Laker big, but dude flat out held himself back with his attitude...PeACe
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
Good point man; however, the thing with Duncan is he is only 31 and likely has more titles in him. Shaq? Not likely, unless he gets his shit together.
Still, Shaq at his peak was far more dominant than Duncan in his prime, this is not debatable.
See, you guys should consider two things that made Duncan the guy he is now:
- he was drafted by a team who already had one of the best big men of all time in the roster, the Admiral. He made Duncan's life easier.
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Those two things, mixed with the fact he's selfish by himself and that he's a silent leader makes him what he is.
Shaq lived a totally different life and career. He was signed by the L.A. Lakers in one of the most memorable moves of all time. He had the keys of L.A. in his hands. He was the boss of the most important franchise ever. And, like you guys said, when he was on his prime he was UNSTOPPABLE.
I like them both.
Let's say Duncan and Shaq are the two best big men i've ever seen playing (i know there are some people better than them in the history of the NBA, MAYBE, but i'm talking about guys i've actually watched playing, live. So guys who played in the last 20 years, basically. Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq. This one is the magic trio. If you talk about one of those three you're talking about a legend).
NOOO. The main difference is that Duncan conditioned and kept himself in shape, and didn't have the same primaddonna "me first" attitude that Shaq had...Had Shaq kept his shit together, he could possibly be known as the greatest player to ever play the game nowadays. He unquestionably had the tools to surpass Kareem as the greatest Laker big, but dude flat out held himself back with his attitude...PeACe
Exactly NIK, Shaq has held himself back with his attitude, much like Kobe has done. Both are two of the best ever, but both could be even better without their massive egos. Bitches
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
Good point man; however, the thing with Duncan is he is only 31 and likely has more titles in him. Shaq? Not likely, unless he gets his shit together.
Still, Shaq at his peak was far more dominant than Duncan in his prime, this is not debatable.
See, you guys should consider two things that made Duncan the guy he is now:
- he was drafted by a team who already had one of the best big men of all time in the roster, the Admiral. He made Duncan's life easier.
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Those two things, mixed with the fact he's selfish by himself and that he's a silent leader makes him what he is.
Shaq lived a totally different life and career. He was signed by the L.A. Lakers in one of the most memorable moves of all time. He had the keys of L.A. in his hands. He was the boss of the most important franchise ever. And, like you guys said, when he was on his prime he was UNSTOPPABLE.
I like them both.
Let's say Duncan and Shaq are the two best big men i've ever seen playing (i know there are some people better than them in the history of the NBA, MAYBE, but i'm talking about guys i've actually watched playing, live. So guys who played in the last 20 years, basically. Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq. This one is the magic trio. If you talk about one of those three you're talking about a legend).
NOOO. The main difference is that Duncan conditioned and kept himself in shape, and didn't have the same primaddonna "me first" attitude that Shaq had...Had Shaq kept his shit together, he could possibly be known as the greatest player to ever play the game nowadays. He unquestionably had the tools to surpass Kareem as the greatest Laker big, but dude flat out held himself back with his attitude...PeACe
Exactly NIK, Shaq has held himself back with his attitude, much like Kobe has done. Both are two of the best ever, but both could be even better without their massive egos. Bitches
Explain to me how the hardest working man in the NBA has held himself back with his attitude? Unlike what I'm saying, there is no basis to your claims...PeACe
-
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Gregg Popovich is a great coach, but to act like he's anywhere near the greatest coach of all time is absurd, man. What's wrong with you? "fuck that zen shit"?? Put Popovich in Phil's shoes, and I guarantee you that the Lakers would not have made the playoffs in at least 1 of the last 2 years...You're heavily disrespecting Phil Jackson, bro...PeACe
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.
Yes I watched the series and for the record I really enjoyed the Pistons upsetting the Lakers. "Shut down" by his standards doesn't mean suckage for Shaq. Anyways I disagree, Kobe claiming he wouldn't mind to play alongside Shaq for his whole career is just some talk meant to be heard by people such as yourself. It's a lie to make you feel better. I don't believe it. It's a great coincidence how Kobe re-signed with the Lakers right after Shaq was traded. Love that. Anyways we 2 will never share the same view on Kobe/Shaq, let's fuck it.
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.
Yes I watched the series and for the record I really enjoyed the Pistons upsetting the Lakers. "Shut down" by his standards doesn't mean suckage for Shaq. Anyways I disagree, Kobe claiming he wouldn't mind to play alongside Shaq for his whole career is just some talk meant to be heard by people such as yourself. It's a lie to make you feel better. I don't believe it. It's a great coincidence how Kobe re-signed with the Lakers right after Shaq was traded. Love that. Anyways we 2 will never share the same view on Kobe/Shaq, let's fuck it.
Uhhh, actually, Kobe was still in some serious talks with the Clippers AFTER Shaq was traded...Shows how much you know about the subject...
P.S. Where did you gain all your knowledge on the situation? Because you've been making a lot of invalid claims, homie...PeACe
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
The difference is Shaq is obviously doing this just to make himself look like the good guy. When he left the Lakers he said he would take a backseat to D.Wade, he started practicing his free-throws, he lost 30 pounds...all the things he REFUSED to do in Los Angeles. That childish attitude is going to catch up with him eventually.
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
The difference is that Shaq wasn't willing to do for KOBE BRYANT what he was willing to do for DWYANE WADE...That should be self-evident to you, being a Laker fan and all....
The comparision is Duncan after 3 NBA Finals MVP vs Shaq after 3 NBA Finals MVP.
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
The difference is Shaq is obviously doing this just to make himself look like the good guy. When he left the Lakers he said he would take a backseat to D.Wade, he started practicing his free-throws, he lost 30 pounds...all the things he REFUSED to do in Los Angeles. That childish attitude is going to catch up with him eventually.
Again: it was something personal. And when he found a team who didn't believe he was that dominant no more, he took it personal and he thought he had something to prove. He won a ring tho.
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
Good point man; however, the thing with Duncan is he is only 31 and likely has more titles in him. Shaq? Not likely, unless he gets his shit together.
Still, Shaq at his peak was far more dominant than Duncan in his prime, this is not debatable.
See, you guys should consider two things that made Duncan the guy he is now:
- he was drafted by a team who already had one of the best big men of all time in the roster, the Admiral. He made Duncan's life easier.
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Those two things, mixed with the fact he's selfish by himself and that he's a silent leader makes him what he is.
Shaq lived a totally different life and career. He was signed by the L.A. Lakers in one of the most memorable moves of all time. He had the keys of L.A. in his hands. He was the boss of the most important franchise ever. And, like you guys said, when he was on his prime he was UNSTOPPABLE.
I like them both.
Let's say Duncan and Shaq are the two best big men i've ever seen playing (i know there are some people better than them in the history of the NBA, MAYBE, but i'm talking about guys i've actually watched playing, live. So guys who played in the last 20 years, basically. Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq. This one is the magic trio. If you talk about one of those three you're talking about a legend).
NOOO. The main difference is that Duncan conditioned and kept himself in shape, and didn't have the same primaddonna "me first" attitude that Shaq had...Had Shaq kept his shit together, he could possibly be known as the greatest player to ever play the game nowadays. He unquestionably had the tools to surpass Kareem as the greatest Laker big, but dude flat out held himself back with his attitude...PeACe
No doubt Shaq was always been a lazy muthafucka with a bad attitude. No doubt.
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
-
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Gregg Popovich is a great coach, but to act like he's anywhere near the greatest coach of all time is absurd, man. What's wrong with you? "fuck that zen shit"?? Put Popovich in Phil's shoes, and I guarantee you that the Lakers would not have made the playoffs in at least 1 of the last 2 years...You're heavily disrespecting Phil Jackson, bro...PeACe
Phil is a great coach when he has great players. And no, don't take me wrong: it's not easy at all!! It's hella difficult to win with guys like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Pippen, Rodman, etc.. in your team (so difficult that nobody did it before and after him, except with Riley - another great coach - with Shaq). But i don't think he's doing a great work in the post-Shaq era. I mean the team depends too much from Kobe. They don't play good TEAM defence and they don't play good TEAM offence. They rely too much on Kobe, and we can't repeat the same excuse of the injuries again and again. What i've seen in the 4th quarter of Game1 of this years PO against the Suns is not THE BEST COACH EVER should make it happens in his team.
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
LMAO@Claiming Kobe told the media that Shaq "paid bitches he fucked/raped"...You really have your facts straight, don't you, 7even? :laugh:
Answer my question.
-
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Gregg Popovich is a great coach, but to act like he's anywhere near the greatest coach of all time is absurd, man. What's wrong with you? "fuck that zen shit"?? Put Popovich in Phil's shoes, and I guarantee you that the Lakers would not have made the playoffs in at least 1 of the last 2 years...You're heavily disrespecting Phil Jackson, bro...PeACe
Phil is a great coach when he has great players. And no, don't take me wrong: it's not easy at all!! It's hella difficult to win with guys like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Pippen, Rodman, etc.. in your team (so difficult that nobody did it before and after him, except with Riley - another great coach - with Shaq). But i don't think he's doing a great work in the post-Shaq era. I mean the team depends too much from Kobe. They don't play good TEAM defence and they don't play good TEAM offence. They rely too much on Kobe, and we can't repeat the same excuse of the injuries again and again. What i've seen in the 4th quarter of Game1 of this years PO against the Suns is not THE BEST COACH EVER should make it happens in his team.
The fact of the matter is, Popovich has never been in a situation like Phil's...I doubt if Popovich makes the playoffs both of the previous seasons in Phil's shoes. Great coach, no doubt, but Phil is on a whole nother level, bro...PeACe
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
Man it's obvious both the guys made a mistake. And Phil Jackson is imho the one to blame. Cause he was the coach, and he wasn't good enought to explain them they was wasting a great chance at making the best dynasty ever. I blame Phil. More than Shaq and Kobe themselves. Phil is the guy who has coached them 24/7 for years, he's the one who had to work on team chemestry, he's the one who let the two destroy his own team because of their egos. Then we can argue who started it. We can argue about Shaq's bad work attitude (i mean we CAN'T discuss about this thing: it's a fact). We can say whatever we want, but both the guys did a mistake, and Phil is the one who didn't force them to take personal issues away from business.
That said, Shaq was been very unprofessional in his last years in purple&gold. You know. And when the Lakers chosed Kobe over him, he felt like they disrespected him (big ego, you know) and took it personal, starting to act professional all of a sudden and giving Wade props. But everything was already damaged, at that point. Imho they should have handled things better, in the looker room. And the coach is the one to blame. Nothing to say about Phil as a coach, he has won 9 fucking rings, it speaks for himself. But he didn't do "the miracle" with Kobe & Shaq.
-
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Gregg Popovich is a great coach, but to act like he's anywhere near the greatest coach of all time is absurd, man. What's wrong with you? "fuck that zen shit"?? Put Popovich in Phil's shoes, and I guarantee you that the Lakers would not have made the playoffs in at least 1 of the last 2 years...You're heavily disrespecting Phil Jackson, bro...PeACe
Phil is a great coach when he has great players. And no, don't take me wrong: it's not easy at all!! It's hella difficult to win with guys like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Pippen, Rodman, etc.. in your team (so difficult that nobody did it before and after him, except with Riley - another great coach - with Shaq). But i don't think he's doing a great work in the post-Shaq era. I mean the team depends too much from Kobe. They don't play good TEAM defence and they don't play good TEAM offence. They rely too much on Kobe, and we can't repeat the same excuse of the injuries again and again. What i've seen in the 4th quarter of Game1 of this years PO against the Suns is not THE BEST COACH EVER should make it happens in his team.
The fact of the matter is, Popovich has never been in a situation like Phil's...I doubt if Popovich makes the playoffs both of the previous seasons in Phil's shoes. Great coach, no doubt, but Phil is on a whole nother level, bro...PeACe
9 rings, no doubt.
But damn, those Lakers need some kicks in their asses. Like Odom, like Kwame... those guys can play great basketball, if only they have their mind focused on the game every fucking minute of the game. That's why i think a coach like Popovich could help them. And Kobe. When he makes too many ugly shots he deserves some kicks in his ass too. And his teammates if they refuse to take good shots. Fuck, everybody! LOL.
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
LMAO@Claiming Kobe told the media that Shaq "paid bitches he fucked/raped"...You really have your facts straight, don't you, 7even? :laugh:
Answer my question.
s
I'm not extremely excited about answering your "question" when all I see there is your approach to discredit my foundation of information and therefore also my whole contribution in this and other topics, which is something I think is not a very nice thing to do.
Don't tell me you never heard about Kobe saying something like this. I know you have. Of course you're going to be like "BS, made up by Kobe-Haters" or something like that. Good thing you have read books endorsed by Kobe Bryant on this.
-
Oh, talking about books....
:-X at Phil's book.
Just add this simple thing to my previous post.
-
About the coaching stuff and Phil Jackson. I think there are coaches who are good in certain things and not so good when it comes to other things. Now that is quite axiomatic I would say. PJ might be one of the best ever to handle an ELITE team. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's one of the best when it comes to dealing with a struggling team that is expected to do much better. Take Don Nelson for example. He's without a doubt great at making a decent team out of a lottery team. But is he great when it comes to making the last step, which is creating an ELITE team that is capable to FINISH in the playoffs? Fuck no. Also, Pat Riley has some serious rings nigga. But what happened when the Heat got injured and sucked balls this season? He took a break. A FUCKIN BREAK, LOL! See where I'm getting at?
-
Oh, talking about books....
:-X at Phil's book.
Just add this simple thing to my previous post.
Yay, when you have one of the greatest centers ever and one of the greatest guards ever you are supposed to not fuck this up. Fine, they don't get along. It's part of those things a coach is supposed to take care of. Not writing a book and adding fuel to the fire. Ya dig?
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
Man it's obvious both the guys made a mistake. And Phil Jackson is imho the one to blame. Cause he was the coach, and he wasn't good enought to explain them they was wasting a great chance at making the best dynasty ever. I blame Phil. More than Shaq and Kobe themselves. Phil is the guy who has coached them 24/7 for years, he's the one who had to work on team chemestry, he's the one who let the two destroy his own team because of their egos. Then we can argue who started it. We can argue about Shaq's bad work attitude (i mean we CAN'T discuss about this thing: it's a fact). We can say whatever we want, but both the guys did a mistake, and Phil is the one who didn't force them to take personal issues away from business.
That said, Shaq was been very unprofessional in his last years in purple&gold. You know. And when the Lakers chosed Kobe over him, he felt like they disrespected him (big ego, you know) and took it personal, starting to act professional all of a sudden and giving Wade props. But everything was already damaged, at that point. Imho they should have handled things better, in the looker room. And the coach is the one to blame. Nothing to say about Phil as a coach, he has won 9 fucking rings, it speaks for himself. But he didn't do "the miracle" with Kobe & Shaq.
Phil is the last person to blame, dude...You wonder why I tell ya'll to read books, it's obvious you're not informed on what went down. It's easy to see that you don't understand how Shaq was as a person. He did the same thing with the Magic...HIS MIND WAS SET ABOUT HOW THINGS SHOULD BE. Shaq's immature, selfish attitude ruined what could've been a 6+ peat...It's a shame you don't see it.
-
- he was (and still is) coached by a great underrated coach (talking about best coach in the League?): Greg Popovic. A coach who doesn't give a flying fuck about who you are. A coach who only cares about the Team. A coach who teachs players how to play TEAM offence and TEAM defence. A coach that if you make a mistake, you have to apologize to him first. A coach that if you don't play/train with the right attitude he kicks you in your ass. Fuck that "Zen" shit, Greg uses his kicks in the ass. He's "that" type of coach.
Gregg Popovich is a great coach, but to act like he's anywhere near the greatest coach of all time is absurd, man. What's wrong with you? "fuck that zen shit"?? Put Popovich in Phil's shoes, and I guarantee you that the Lakers would not have made the playoffs in at least 1 of the last 2 years...You're heavily disrespecting Phil Jackson, bro...PeACe
Phil is a great coach when he has great players. And no, don't take me wrong: it's not easy at all!! It's hella difficult to win with guys like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Pippen, Rodman, etc.. in your team (so difficult that nobody did it before and after him, except with Riley - another great coach - with Shaq). But i don't think he's doing a great work in the post-Shaq era. I mean the team depends too much from Kobe. They don't play good TEAM defence and they don't play good TEAM offence. They rely too much on Kobe, and we can't repeat the same excuse of the injuries again and again. What i've seen in the 4th quarter of Game1 of this years PO against the Suns is not THE BEST COACH EVER should make it happens in his team.
The fact of the matter is, Popovich has never been in a situation like Phil's...I doubt if Popovich makes the playoffs both of the previous seasons in Phil's shoes. Great coach, no doubt, but Phil is on a whole nother level, bro...PeACe
9 rings, no doubt.
But damn, those Lakers need some kicks in their asses. Like Odom, like Kwame... those guys can play great basketball, if only they have their mind focused on the game every fucking minute of the game. That's why i think a coach like Popovich could help them. And Kobe. When he makes too many ugly shots he deserves some kicks in his ass too. And his teammates if they refuse to take good shots. Fuck, everybody! LOL.
Wow...You really look at things in a funny way. Odom did the fucking most he could, man, dude played like a warrior when he was supposed to be in a hospital bed getting surgery... Kwame? Kwame couldn't get off the ground by the time playoffs rolled around...Kobe was FORCED to carry a load of a whole team under the circumstances. You make it seem all super easy. Quite sad, really.
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
LMAO@Claiming Kobe told the media that Shaq "paid bitches he fucked/raped"...You really have your facts straight, don't you, 7even? :laugh:
Answer my question.
s
I'm not extremely excited about answering your "question" when all I see there is your approach to discredit my foundation of information and therefore also my whole contribution in this and other topics, which is something I think is not a very nice thing to do.
Don't tell me you never heard about Kobe saying something like this. I know you have. Of course you're going to be like "BS, made up by Kobe-Haters" or something like that. Good thing you have read books endorsed by Kobe Bryant on this.
Based on the knowledge I've gathered on the subject as a Laker fan over the years (a lot more than you), I've concluded that Kobe woulda' played alongside Shaq his whole career if Shaq wasn't such a piece of shit attention whore. Kobe is in it mainly to win, and he wants to do it as a Laker. He's not in it to build a personal resume, like Shaq...It'd be very clear to you if you knew what's up...PeACe
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
LMAO@Claiming Kobe told the media that Shaq "paid bitches he fucked/raped"...You really have your facts straight, don't you, 7even? :laugh:
Answer my question.
s
I'm not extremely excited about answering your "question" when all I see there is your approach to discredit my foundation of information and therefore also my whole contribution in this and other topics, which is something I think is not a very nice thing to do.
Don't tell me you never heard about Kobe saying something like this. I know you have. Of course you're going to be like "BS, made up by Kobe-Haters" or something like that. Good thing you have read books endorsed by Kobe Bryant on this.
Based on the knowledge I've gathered as a Laker fan over the years on the subject (much more than you), I've concluded that Kobe woulda' played alongside Shaq his whole career if Shaq wasn't such a piece of shit attention whore. Kobe is in it mainly to win, and he wants to do it as a Laker. He's not in it to build a personal resume, like Shaq...It'd be very clear to you if you knew what's up...PeACe
I think the knowledge we both gathered on the topic is not what makes our views differ that much. I think me being in a more neutral position whereas you try to always try to be Pro-Lakers and Pro-Kobe... you like them, and therefore you draw different conclusions than I do.
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
LMAO@Claiming Kobe told the media that Shaq "paid bitches he fucked/raped"...You really have your facts straight, don't you, 7even? :laugh:
Answer my question.
s
I'm not extremely excited about answering your "question" when all I see there is your approach to discredit my foundation of information and therefore also my whole contribution in this and other topics, which is something I think is not a very nice thing to do.
Don't tell me you never heard about Kobe saying something like this. I know you have. Of course you're going to be like "BS, made up by Kobe-Haters" or something like that. Good thing you have read books endorsed by Kobe Bryant on this.
Based on the knowledge I've gathered as a Laker fan over the years on the subject (much more than you), I've concluded that Kobe woulda' played alongside Shaq his whole career if Shaq wasn't such a piece of shit attention whore. Kobe is in it mainly to win, and he wants to do it as a Laker. He's not in it to build a personal resume, like Shaq...It'd be very clear to you if you knew what's up...PeACe
I think the knowledge we both gathered on the topic is not what makes our views differ that much. I think me being in a more neutral position whereas you try to always try to be Pro-Lakers and Pro-Kobe... you like them, and therefore you draw different conclusions than I do.
Not true...You simply haven't read enough material to make conclusions. I'm only saying this because a lot of stuff you've claimed regarding the topic so far has been invalid and baseless...PeACe
-
Do you guys really think there woulda been a problem if Shaq had the maturity of a Kareem?
-
Didn't Wade win the last NBA Finals MVP?
So Shaq is 3x MVP Finals and 1x he didn't win it by giving the young Wade the spotlight.
Where's the difference with Duncan?
The difference is Shaq is obviously doing this just to make himself look like the good guy. When he left the Lakers he said he would take a backseat to D.Wade, he started practicing his free-throws, he lost 30 pounds...all the things he REFUSED to do in Los Angeles. That childish attitude is going to catch up with him eventually.
Again: it was something personal. And when he found a team who didn't believe he was that dominant no more, he took it personal and he thought he had something to prove. He won a ring tho.
You don't find that disgustingly immature?
-
Not true...You simply haven't read enough material to make conclusions. I'm only saying this because a lot of stuff you've claimed regarding the topic so far has been invalid and baseless...PeACe
Oh really? What was so damn invalid and baseless? You wanna tell me Kobe never said something along the lines of Shaq paying women to keep shit quiet? Why exactly is that invalid and baseless? Has Kobe denied it on his myspace I forgot to check out?
Do you guys really think there woulda been a problem if Shaq had the maturity of a Kareem?
Do you really think there woulda been a problem if Kobe had?
-
Do you guys really think there woulda been a problem if Shaq had the maturity of a Kareem?
Do you really think there woulda been a problem if Kobe had?
Yes! Cuz Shaq's main problem was with the FO and HIS jealousy issues...PeACe
-
Not true...You simply haven't read enough material to make conclusions. I'm only saying this because a lot of stuff you've claimed regarding the topic so far has been invalid and baseless...PeACe
Oh really? What was so damn invalid and baseless? You wanna tell me Kobe never said something along the lines of Shaq paying women to keep shit quiet? Why exactly is that invalid and baseless? Has Kobe denied it on his myspace I forgot to check out?
Kobe never said anything to the media, he had a one-on-one discussion with a cop, and he used Shaq as an example, asking if he could do the same thing Shaq does. The cops then leaked the info to the media...Don't twist shit up, Shaq was the one always bitching about Kobe to the media...PeACe
-
Not true...You simply haven't read enough material to make conclusions. I'm only saying this because a lot of stuff you've claimed regarding the topic so far has been invalid and baseless...PeACe
Oh really? What was so damn invalid and baseless? You wanna tell me Kobe never said something along the lines of Shaq paying women to keep shit quiet? Why exactly is that invalid and baseless? Has Kobe denied it on his myspace I forgot to check out?
Kobe never said anything to the media, he had a one-on-one discussion with a cop, and he used Shaq as an example, asking if he could do the same thing Shaq does. The cops then leaked the info to the media...Don't twist shit up, Shaq was the one always bitching about Kobe to the media...PeACe
What did Phil Jackson's book say about the beef between Kobe and Shaq?
-
all i got to say about this thread is :
http://www.youtube.com/v/-jDTxtxPfOY
all over the twin towers
-
Not true...You simply haven't read enough material to make conclusions. I'm only saying this because a lot of stuff you've claimed regarding the topic so far has been invalid and baseless...PeACe
Oh really? What was so damn invalid and baseless? You wanna tell me Kobe never said something along the lines of Shaq paying women to keep shit quiet? Why exactly is that invalid and baseless? Has Kobe denied it on his myspace I forgot to check out?
Kobe never said anything to the media, he had a one-on-one discussion with a cop, and he used Shaq as an example, asking if he could do the same thing Shaq does. The cops then leaked the info to the media...Don't twist shit up, Shaq was the one always bitching about Kobe to the media...PeACe
What did Phil Jackson's book say about the beef between Kobe and Shaq?
There are CHAPTERS written about it...Read it.
-
Its obvious the Lakers broke up cause of SHAQ. dude got lazy and irrated that Kobe was the man, Shaq could of been the best big man ever but his dumb ass ego got in the way
-
On the coach thing, Phil Jackson is great to add the little things which will turn a very good team into a great team i.e winning championships and that's why he has done the entire carreer.. the current problem is Phil has never had to re-build a team from scratch and working on a long term perspective... plus he likes to coach experienced players, vets who got a huge B-Ball IQ ... I agree with most of Antonio said, Phil hasn't made a great job this year... I was very satisfied with his 05-06 work but this year, Hell naw... his "zen thing " doesn't work with young players, they have to get kicked in the butt (no homo) to understand they don't make the right efforts to improve
-
In Shaq's prime, he was the most dominating. He's nowhere close to that now, but dial back to '01 and fuck w/ him. It's not happening.
-
Oh, talking about books....
:-X at Phil's book.
Just add this simple thing to my previous post.
Yay, when you have one of the greatest centers ever and one of the greatest guards ever you are supposed to not fuck this up. Fine, they don't get along. It's part of those things a coach is supposed to take care of. Not writing a book and adding fuel to the fire. Ya dig?
That's what i'm saying..
-
Ok, he didn't want Kobe to be the man. But he wanted Wade to be the man. It was something personal, obviously.
You have to understand they think this is only Shaq's fault LOL. Nobody else's. Hell, according to Baby G Shaq basically only deferred to Wade to hurt Kobe, make him jealous and shit. Lol... he really must hate Kobe a lot. And only Shaq is to blame for that. Also, when Kobe told the media that Shaq is paying bitches he fucked/raped to keep it quiet, that was also just Shaq's fault cause he was just too mean to Kobe. Kobe is the nicest guy ever and Shaq is just an obnoxious excuse for a human being. ::)
Man it's obvious both the guys made a mistake. And Phil Jackson is imho the one to blame. Cause he was the coach, and he wasn't good enought to explain them they was wasting a great chance at making the best dynasty ever. I blame Phil. More than Shaq and Kobe themselves. Phil is the guy who has coached them 24/7 for years, he's the one who had to work on team chemestry, he's the one who let the two destroy his own team because of their egos. Then we can argue who started it. We can argue about Shaq's bad work attitude (i mean we CAN'T discuss about this thing: it's a fact). We can say whatever we want, but both the guys did a mistake, and Phil is the one who didn't force them to take personal issues away from business.
That said, Shaq was been very unprofessional in his last years in purple&gold. You know. And when the Lakers chosed Kobe over him, he felt like they disrespected him (big ego, you know) and took it personal, starting to act professional all of a sudden and giving Wade props. But everything was already damaged, at that point. Imho they should have handled things better, in the looker room. And the coach is the one to blame. Nothing to say about Phil as a coach, he has won 9 fucking rings, it speaks for himself. But he didn't do "the miracle" with Kobe & Shaq.
Phil is the last person to blame, dude...You wonder why I tell ya'll to read books, it's obvious you're not informed on what went down. It's easy to see that you don't understand how Shaq was as a person. He did the same thing with the Magic...HIS MIND WAS SET ABOUT HOW THINGS SHOULD BE. Shaq's immature, selfish attitude ruined what could've been a 6+ peat...It's a shame you don't see it.
Man i have no doubts Shaq was a moron, selfish, lazy, unprofessional muthafucka.
But his role having the best C and the best SG of the league should have been to keep the things quiet between the two.
He obviously failed. Maybe Shaq is the one to blame more than everybody, but if the looker room is on fire, you gotta act like a firefighter.
And, honeslty, Phil Jackson never acted like a firefighter. At one point both Kobe and Shaq didn't want to be coached by Phil.
Kobe only forgave him because Lakers didn't reach the P.O. without him, but what he did writing that infamous book was low.
Great coach, yeah. But not a great motivator and he did nothing to try to make things cool between Shaq and Kobe.
-
^Phil managed to have them winning championships together while they wanted to stab eachother in the back! Are you nuts? Who else woulda' worked that? Phil is the Zen master, his whole approach is to reach people and have them unite as one...Shaq already had his agenda set, and he was having it HIS WAY, or the highway...Nothing Phil can do with an ego like that. To blame him is even worse than blaming Kobe IMO. Shaq woulda' done what he did no matter what. He did it to Orlando, and when Kobe was getting big, he did it to the Lakers as well...PeACe
-
^Phil managed to have them winning championships together while they wanted to stab eachother in the back! Are you nuts? Who else woulda' worked that? Phil is the Zen master, his whole approach is to reach people and have them unite as one...Shaq already had his agenda set, and he was having it HIS WAY, or the highway...Nothing Phil can do with an ego like that. To blame him is even worse than blaming Kobe IMO. Shaq woulda' done what he did no matter what. He did it to Orlando, and when Kobe was getting big, he did it to the Lakers as well...PeACe
Man i refuse to think Shaq is the only one to blame. Simple as that.
If you refuse it, there are three men who should be blamed for what happened: Shaq, Kobe, and the writer. Simple as that.
If you say Phil is not the only one i do agree.
If you say he's not the main one to blame we can argue about it, and the 3 rings won are a good point.
But please don't tell me Phil and Kobe were best friends and both saints, while Shaq was the Devil.
It just doesn't make sense.
-
^^Then you simply don't get the fucking situation. Had we had a Kareem or a Hakeem instead of a Shaq on our team, it NEVER woulda' happened. Can you honestly disagree with that? HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED WHO SHAQ IS YET? :grumpy:
-
^^Then you simply don't get the fucking situation. Had we had a Kareem or a Hakeem instead of a Shaq on our team, it NEVER woulda' happened. Can you honestly disagree with that?
No. But hey, you like things that are easy. I mean both Kareem and Hakeem are 10x the man/professionist/sportman Shaq is.
Shaq was a moron. Ok. That's where the best coach ever should try to work. He did a good job til they lost with Detroit. Then everything collapsed (including his own brain).
-
^^Then you simply don't get the fucking situation. Had we had a Kareem or a Hakeem instead of a Shaq on our team, it NEVER woulda' happened. Can you honestly disagree with that?
No. But hey, you like things that are easy. I mean both Kareem and Hakeem are 10x the man/professionist/sportman Shaq is.
Shaq was a moron. Ok. That's where the best coach ever should try to work. He did a good job til they lost with Detroit. Then everything collapsed (including his own brain).
I honestly don't think Phil had the power to change Shaq's way of thinking...Phil WANTED the offense to run through Kobe. He just couldn't convince Shaq. Shaq was larger than the organization in his head...I definitely thought you knew the whole situation by now. Enough to not blame Phil at least...PeACe
-
^^Then you simply don't get the fucking situation. Had we had a Kareem or a Hakeem instead of a Shaq on our team, it NEVER woulda' happened. Can you honestly disagree with that?
No. But hey, you like things that are easy. I mean both Kareem and Hakeem are 10x the man/professionist/sportman Shaq is.
Shaq was a moron. Ok. That's where the best coach ever should try to work. He did a good job til they lost with Detroit. Then everything collapsed (including his own brain).
I honestly don't think Phil had the power to change Shaq's way of thinking...Phil WANTED the offense to run through Kobe. He just couldn't convince Shaq. Shaq was larger than the organization in his head...I definitely thought you knew the whole situation by now. Enough to not blame Phil at least...PeACe
Man i know what happened, we already talked about it thousands of times. But since Phil was not been able to do the shit he wanted to do, all i'm saying is that he didn't do a great job changing Shaq's bad attitude. So he did half of the job i was expecting from him. I was expecting Phil to coach the team well (and he obviously did) and to be a leader enought to change Shaq's mind and attitude. He failed in this last thing.
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.
Nik what are you talking about? Shaq averaged about 28 points/game in the 2004 finals, how did he get shut down by Big Ben, that's not a very good point your trying to make. The Lakers lost that year because Payton didn't step up and Malone was injured, I say if Malone was healthy and Kareem Rush hit shots like he did in the Western Conference Finals we woulda won that year too
-
^^Then you simply don't get the fucking situation. Had we had a Kareem or a Hakeem instead of a Shaq on our team, it NEVER woulda' happened. Can you honestly disagree with that? HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED WHO SHAQ IS YET? :grumpy:
I agree with you, Shaq is an asshole with one of the largest ego's of any athlete ever. Having said that, how about this question:
If Kobe was like Parker, Lebron or Wade (ie. someone who can defer, play team ball, set others up, etc) would the situation have happened?
The fact that you can't even admit Kobe was a little bit to blame is rather humorous man!
-
From a recent article on FoX:
"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."
"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."
Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."
According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq. Case closed.
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.
Nik what are you talking about? Shaq averaged about 28 points/game in the 2004 finals, how did he get shut down by Big Ben, that's not a very good point your trying to make. The Lakers lost that year because Payton didn't step up and Malone was injured, I say if Malone was healthy and Kareem Rush hit shots like he did in the Western Conference Finals we woulda won that year too
Yeah thats true too. I don't like placing blame on one player, but Payton had a huge part to do with that. He had already struggled to comprehend the triangle, the Billups just completely locked up on him. Malone wasn't healthy and unfortunately neither was Horace Grant. Shaq played pretty good just not vintage Shaq. Kobe struggled. And we couldn't get anything out of our bench (other than a few nice plays by Luke).
-
"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."
Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."
According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq. Case closed.
HORRY IS GOD.
And, since HORRY IS GOD, that's the truth. Case closed for me too.
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.
Nik what are you talking about? Shaq averaged about 28 points/game in the 2004 finals, how did he get shut down by Big Ben, that's not a very good point your trying to make. The Lakers lost that year because Payton didn't step up and Malone was injured, I say if Malone was healthy and Kareem Rush hit shots like he did in the Western Conference Finals we woulda won that year too
"We"? You're a Laker fan?? Fact of the matter is, Shaq was unquestionably out of his prime by then. You know he's not himself anymore when he's putting up games of 14 points and 8 rebounds (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/DET20040615.html) in the Finals...Shaq did have some nice games, but overall, he should not have acted like he did that season. We woulda won the series with Malone healthy and some better officiating, but the fact of the matter is, Shaq was only playing dominant every other game, yet the offense was running through him based on HIS demands...If you demand the offense, at least pull through...2003-04 is the seaosn Shaq started REALLY pissing me off with his attitude and work ethic. He definitely coulda taken the higher road and it definitely woulda' paid off. He said his dream was to retire with 2 hands fulla' rings, 6, 7, 8+...He definitely coulda' had it :-\...PeACe
-
^^Then you simply don't get the fucking situation. Had we had a Kareem or a Hakeem instead of a Shaq on our team, it NEVER woulda' happened. Can you honestly disagree with that? HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED WHO SHAQ IS YET? :grumpy:
I agree with you, Shaq is an asshole with one of the largest ego's of any athlete ever. Having said that, how about this question:
If Kobe was like Parker, Lebron or Wade (ie. someone who can defer, play team ball, set others up, etc) would the situation have happened?
The fact that you can't even admit Kobe was a little bit to blame is rather humorous man!
The only thing hilarious is claiming couldn't defer when he defered to Shaq during Shaq's whole stay with the Lakers, even when he was WAY better than a Parker, a Lebron, or a Wade, even when Phil Jackson wanted the offense running through Kobe...You have nothing. Your going offa' your feelings, not offa' facts, man....PeACe
-
From a recent article on FoX:
"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."
"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."
Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."
According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq. Case closed.
yea, you forgot this part of the article:
Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."
And Horry hit it on the nail. It was MONEY ISSUES. Shaq wanted 30 mill a year! Check Kobe's current contract with the Lakers. He gets paid less than Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Allen Iverson, Michael Finley, Chris Webber, Jason Kidd, Allan Houston ( :-X) and even Shaq! Are you saying Shaq wanted Kobe to take less money than he's taking now? And you support this asshole??
-
From a recent article on FoX:
"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."
"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."
Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."
According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq. Case closed.
yea, you forgot this part of the article:
Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."
This part isn't interesting at all. Who gives a fuck which team was better, they both won a title anyway. The interesting part is Horry saying both Kobe and Shaq destroyed it all because "those two guys wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys". THEM BOTH. Not just Shaq.
Stop it.
-
From a recent article on FoX:
"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."
"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."
Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."
According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq. Case closed.
yea, you forgot this part of the article:
Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."
This part isn't interesting at all. Who gives a fuck which team was better, they both won a title anyway. The interesting part is Horry saying both Kobe and Shaq destroyed it all because "those two guys wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys". THEM BOTH. Not just Shaq.
Stop it.
Exactly; i left out that part of the article because i KNOW none of the Spurs team can fuck with the 01 Lakers. I was trying to show, as you pointed out, that HORRY said it was BOTH of their faults, but it looks like that slid right past NIK ::)
-
From a recent article on FoX:
"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."
"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."
Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."
According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq. Case closed.
yea, you forgot this part of the article:
Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."
This part isn't interesting at all. Who gives a fuck which team was better, they both won a title anyway. The interesting part is Horry saying both Kobe and Shaq destroyed it all because "those two guys wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys". THEM BOTH. Not just Shaq.
Stop it.
The difference is, it was Kobe's turn to be the top dog. He was in every position to lead the Lakers...Shaq was unquestionably subsiding and Kobe was coming off of a career year where he shoulda' won the MVP. It was at a point where even the coach wanted Kobe in the lead role, but gave in to Shaq because of his personality... Jordan woulda' done the same. Imagine someone like Shaq doing Jordan's legacy in like he did to Kobe :-X...It was Shaq's turn to take a back seat for 3peat number two, and he simply wasn't ready.
Understand yet?
-
The difference is, it was Kobe's turn to be the top dog.
What the fuck is a top dog anyway? The #1 scorer of the team? Is it what it's all about? Or are you talking about money? Or about shitting on teammates like some Al Capone shit? Is it dissing Mitch and Bynum? Is it asking to be traded? Is it chosing the coach and the trades the team has to do? Is it to shot 11 straight times in the 4th quarter of Game1 of the PO without hitting a single fucking shot? What do you mean about being the "top dog"? Horry was never been a top dog, but he won 7 fucking titles and he's a legend to me. Fox wasn't a "top dog" but he was a very intelligent all-around player. Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, George, Lue.. those players weren't "top dogs", but hey, they played a big part in our dynasty too. Kobe was still 25 years old, damn. He should have focus more about the team and teammates. Shaq wanted a big fucking contract? Fine, he was a 3x MVP Finals type of player, negotiating the last contract of his career. Kobe should have waited 2-3 more years (til now, when it's obvious he's on another level) and then take the team over his shoulders. If it's true that he's all about WINNING, he should have done it.
Asking to be traded to the Bulls ( ::) ) or the Knicks ( :puke: ) is just ridiculous. Expecially if the reason is "i wanna win NOW". Fucking idiot, if you wanna win take a fucking paycut and let the Lakers sign a superstar with the money saved. Or join the Spurs or the Suns. But please never ever name the Knicks again.
-
He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.
-
He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.
I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.
-
The difference is, it was Kobe's turn to be the top dog.
What the fuck is a top dog anyway? The #1 scorer of the team? Is it what it's all about? Or are you talking about money? Or about shitting on teammates like some Al Capone shit? Is it dissing Mitch and Bynum? Is it asking to be traded? Is it chosing the coach and the trades the team has to do? Is it to shot 11 straight times in the 4th quarter of Game1 of the PO without hitting a single fucking shot? What do you mean about being the "top dog"? Horry was never been a top dog, but he won 7 fucking titles and he's a legend to me. Fox wasn't a "top dog" but he was a very intelligent all-around player. Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, George, Lue.. those players weren't "top dogs", but hey, they played a big part in our dynasty too. Kobe was still 25 years old, damn. He should have focus more about the team and teammates. Shaq wanted a big fucking contract? Fine, he was a 3x MVP Finals type of player, negotiating the last contract of his career. Kobe should have waited 2-3 more years (til now, when it's obvious he's on another level) and then take the team over his shoulders. If it's true that he's all about WINNING, he should have done it.
Asking to be traded to the Bulls ( ::) ) or the Knicks ( :puke: ) is just ridiculous. Expecially if the reason is "i wanna win NOW". Fucking idiot, if you wanna win take a fucking paycut and let the Lakers sign a superstar with the money saved. Or join the Spurs or the Suns. But please never ever name the Knicks again.
LMAO@believing those media made reports....Please, Antonio, you've already disappointed me enough. You haven't learned ANYTHING. :-X
ROFLMAO@"Kobe shoulda' waited for Shaq"...I'm sure Jordan woulda' waited in his prime. I'm sure Magic woulda waited in his prime...DR BUSS DIDNT EVEN WANNA PAY SHAQ ALL THAT MONEY! $30 MILLION A YEAR!!! THAT WOULDA HANDICAPPED THE TEAM FINANCUALLY FOR AN OUT-OF-SHAPE DOUCHEBAG... ANTONIO, ARE YOU BRAINDEAD? THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED? Why are you having trouble admitting that Shaq was an asshole who wanted too much, and that's where the problem was...It's a shame that you blame people like Phil and Kobe over a childish moron like Shaq.
And ask around about what your boy Magic did in '82...PeACe
-
He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.
I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.
Yea...Kobe wants money and attention, not to win. ::) Antonio, you fucking suck ass, bro. You did a complete 360. Honestly. I feel bad for you. The media has brainwashed you as well...PeACe
-
He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.
I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.
Yea...Kobe wants money and attention, not to win. ::) Antonio, you fucking suck ass, bro. You did a complete 360. Honestly. I feel bad for you. The media has brainwashed you as well...PeACe
He wants to win in NYC, yeah. ::)
-
He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.
I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.
Yea...Kobe wants money and attention, not to win. ::) Antonio, you fucking suck ass, bro. You did a complete 360. Honestly. I feel bad for you. The media has brainwashed you as well...PeACe
He wants to win in NYC, yeah. ::)
First off, what you heard was a RUMOR...You are a follower, listening to what the MEDIA is telling you about Kobe. Second off, Kobe would DOMINATE the east with the Knicks. Plus, Isaiah never lied to Kobe like Jerry Buss did......Either way, Kobe is NOT getting traded. He last spoke of a possible trade 2 weeks ago, everything else you're going offa' is MEDIA MADE...PeACe
-
lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha
and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol
LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. :-X And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.
I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.
Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.
I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.
Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.
What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.
You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.
DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.
Nik what are you talking about? Shaq averaged about 28 points/game in the 2004 finals, how did he get shut down by Big Ben, that's not a very good point your trying to make. The Lakers lost that year because Payton didn't step up and Malone was injured, I say if Malone was healthy and Kareem Rush hit shots like he did in the Western Conference Finals we woulda won that year too
"We"? You're a Laker fan?? Fact of the matter is, Shaq was unquestionably out of his prime by then. You know he's not himself anymore when he's putting up games of 14 points and 8 rebounds (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/DET20040615.html) in the Finals...Shaq did have some nice games, but overall, he should not have acted like he did that season. We woulda won the series with Malone healthy and some better officiating, but the fact of the matter is, Shaq was only playing dominant every other game, yet the offense was running through him based on HIS demands...If you demand the offense, at least pull through...2003-04 is the seaosn Shaq started REALLY pissing me off with his attitude and work ethic. He definitely coulda taken the higher road and it definitely woulda' paid off. He said his dream was to retire with 2 hands fulla' rings, 6, 7, 8+...He definitely coulda' had it :-\...PeACe
I was a Laker fan when Shaq was with 'em. I'm a Shaq fan basically, wherever Shaq goes I go. So I have been a Magic, Laker, and now a Heat fan. Ok, one game of 14 and 8 doesn't make it his fault, he was dominating every other game in the finals. There was just no one else helping him out besides Kobe.
-
^^Point is, he was nowhere near top shape. His overall finals appearance in '04 was considered sub-par, as was his whole season. You KNOW Shaq coulda' made his legacy way greater....PeACe
-
game 1 2004 nba finals
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- While the Lakers stumbled and strained through the second half of their first home loss in the playoffs, a few scattered cries eventually grew to a small chorus from the flummoxed crowd.
"Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!"
That's easier shouted than done against the Pistons' stifling defense -- and the Lakers have a whole new respect for the bruising Eastern Conference champions after Detroit's 87-75 victory in Game 1 of the NBA Finals on Sunday night.
"I don't know if we could ever defend better," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "We contested shots. We did an unbelievable job, and I think that's what it's going to take."
Kobe Bryant heard the chants, firing up 27 shots of mostly dubious quality while scoring 25 points. But though Shaquille O'Neal went 13-for-16 on the way to 34 points, he didn't get the ball nearly enough in the second half.
"That's a good team, and we have to rise up and meet that challenge," O'Neal said. "We know that now."
The Lakers' struggles also sparked another mini-controversy in a season chock-full of them. Coach Phil Jackson said he thought O'Neal looked tired in the second half.
"Tired of waiting," O'Neal responded. "I don't think a person going 13-for-16 is a sign of being tired by any means."
Chauncey Billups scored 22 points for the Pistons, who weren't much better on offense than the Lakers. But Rasheed Wallace scored six of his 14 points in the fourth quarter, and Detroit poured its energy into a defense that kept the ball away from O'Neal.
Though the Pistons have exactly six games of NBA Finals experience on their roster, they were not intimidated by the Lakers' star-packed crowd or the nine championship banners on the arena wall. They still believe they're tough enough to end the West's streak of five straight series victories in the NBA Finals.
"We're never scared," said playoff scoring leader Richard Hamilton, who had just 12 points on 5-of-16 shooting. "We're going to go out there and have each other's back."
Only an incredible defensive team could shut down the Lakers, and the Pistons certainly put another chokehold on another powerful opponent. They blanketed Los Angeles on nearly every possession, forcing difficult passes and tougher shots by the sheer force of their athleticism.
Shaq scored nearly every time he got the ball low in the paint, but the Pistons attacked Los Angeles' entry passes and also forced O'Neal to commit six turnovers. He got just eight shots in the second half, while Bryant missed 10 of his 15 -- and also clanged consecutive 3-pointers in the fourth quarter to kill the Lakers' last attempt at a rally.
O'Neal went 8-for-12 from the line, but didn't shoot a free throw in the second half as the Lakers failed to find him underneath. He still was angry after the game until getting a hug and a kiss from his wife and daughter on the way out of Staples Center.
The rest of the Lakers got no more than a handful of open looks. From Ben Wallace's dangerous presence in the middle to Billups' harassment of Gary Payton and Derek Fisher, the Pistons were all over the Lakers.
By the final possession, the Lakers didn't even try: Payton dribbled out the final 10 seconds of his first finals game since 1996 with pure disgust on his face.
Game 2 in the best-of-seven series is Tuesday night, with Game 3 in Auburn Hills on Thursday night.
"It's a seven-game series, and there's always Tuesday," Bryant said.
Payton and Karl Malone , the Lakers' ringless duo, both went scoreless in the first half. Malone had the worst playoff game of his 19-season career, scoring four points on 2-of-9 shooting, and Payton -- who had three points -- bettered his career playoff-low by one point.
"Four points is terrible," Malone said. "My little boy can do that."
None of the Lakers' supporting cast scored more than five points, while eight Pistons got at least that many. Except for Hamilton's shooting struggles against the defense of childhood rival Bryant, the game was almost ideal Detroit basketball.
"It's unbelievable the feeling we have right now, but there's no way we can dwell on it," Billups said. "We have to come in [Monday] and start worrying about Game 2."
-
game 2 2004 nba finals
LOS ANGELES -- In a performance that cemented his status as one of the great superstars in NBA history, Kobe Bryant pulled off a most stunning display on the sport's biggest stage.
Bryant tied the game with a 3-pointer with 2.1 seconds left in regulation and helped the Los Angeles Lakers pull away for good at the start of overtime in their 99-91 victory against the Detroit Pistons in Game 2 of the NBA Finals on Tuesday night.
We're pretty sure Kobe could have gotten his shot in college, too.
"It's probably the biggest shot I've hit in my career, period," Bryant said.
Seconds from facing a 2-0 deficit with the series headed to Detroit, the Lakers evened it at a game apiece behind Bryant's 33 points and seven assists.
"It's all about rising to the challenge," Bryant said. "High stakes. I know I can rise to that."
The teams play again Thursday night, each having earned a greater level of respect for their opponent. The Lakers now realize more than ever that the Pistons are anything but a pushover, while Detroit now knows that no victory is ever secure when the ball can end up in Bryant's hands for the biggest shot of the game.
"It's a challenge," Bryant said. "A dogfight. No one said it was going to be easy. We look forward to going up there."
Shaquille O'Neal added 29 points for the Lakers[/u], six of them coming in the extra period as Los Angeles improved to 7-0 in overtime games during the regular season and postseason.
One of those victories came on the final night of the regular season at Portland when Bryant hit a buzzer-beating 3-pointer to force overtime, then won it at the end of the extra period with another 3 to give the Lakers the Pacific Division title.
This time, things looked fairly hopeless for the Lakers as they trailed by six points with less than 40 seconds left in regulation. But O'Neal converted a three-point play and Chauncey Billups missed a runner for Detroit, giving the Lakers a last shot.
"Well, we always believe Kobe can make miracle shots even when things are not going well for him," coach Phil Jackson said. "That was a great shot."
Naturally, the ball went to No. 8. And naturally, Bryant drilled it.
"That's why he's so special," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "After what the kid's been through all year, more power to him, because he's a great, great young man."
After hitting the shot over the outstretched hand of old high school rival Richard Hamilton, Bryant ran back to the bench to chest-bump teammate Devean George as Detroit called timeout to set up a last shot.
"Shaq gave me a great down pick," Bryant said. "I had Richard on me, and I just tried to gather my balance and knock it down."
Rasheed Wallace let Tayshaun Prince's inbounds pass slip through his hands, and the clock expired without the Pistons attempting a final shot.
The momentum was squarely on the Lakers' side by then, and Los Angeles outscored Detroit 10-2 in the extra period to even the series.
Bryant began the extra period by feeding O'Neal for a dunk, but he then picked up his fifth foul with 4:18 left. Did it matter? Not a bit.
Bryant scored on a drive, fed O'Neal for a 4-footer and scored on a driving bank shot for a 97-91 lead.
The capper came when Luke Walton, a surprise contributor in the first half and at the end, sent an alley-oop pass to O'Neal for a dunk.
Detroit shot just 1-for-9 in overtime, ruining a performance that seemed so promising as regulation wound down.
Billups scored 27 and Hamilton 26 for the Pistons.
The difference-maker in the first half was Walton, a rookie who didn't get off the bench in Game 1.
Besides making all three of his shots and grabbing five rebounds, Walton had eight assists. Two of them came on passes to Bryant to begin a 15-6 run to close the half that gave the Lakers a 44-36 lead.
Los Angeles was able to sustain a comfortable margin through the early part of the third quarter, in large part because the Lakers' own sloppiness was matched by Detroit's. After Jackson berated guard Gary Payton as he walked off the court during a timeout, Bryant came out and hit a 22-foot jumper for a 54-43 lead.
Detroit began chipping away by going at the Lakers' two aging superstars, Wallace taking on Karl Malone and Billups going at Payton. Both Los Angeles players began making mental mistakes on offense, too.
Getting 16 points in the quarter from Billups and eight from Wallace, Detroit pulled within one point late in the quarter and trailed 68-66 entering the fourth.
Walton didn't get off the bench in the second half until after Detroit scored the first basket of the fourth quarter to tie it, and the Pistons pulled ahead on a 3-pointer by Lindsey Hunter as Jackson went with a lineup of Walton, Kareem Rush, Brian Cook, Derek Fisher and O'Neal.
O'Neal took a pass from Walton and plowed into Ben Wallace with 6:17 left, picking up his fifth foul and heading to the bench. A give-and-go layup by Hamilton off a pass from Rasheed Wallace was followed by an airball by Bryant, and Rasheed Wallace then fed Ben Wallace for a reverse layup and an 81-77 lead.
Detroit traded baskets with the Lakers on the next two possessions, and a missed 3 by Bryant was followed by two free throws by Hamilton for an 87-82 lead with 1:19 left.
-
game 3 2004 nba finals
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- When the entry pass floated inside to Shaquille O'Neal, Elden Campbell knocked it away and dashed downcourt. Richard Hamilton picked up the loose ball and flung it forward.
In a fourth-quarter play that symbolized the entire night for the Detroit Pistons, the 36-year-old Campbell caught the ball and went flying in for a left-handed jam, and the decibel level at the Palace went off the charts.
The dunk by the backup center gave the Pistons an 18-point lead on their way to a 88-68 victory Thursday night over the Los Angeles Lakers and a 2-1 lead in the NBA Finals.
"I wouldn't say it buried them, but that was a big play at the time," said Campbell, adding it was his first breakaway dunk since he played in Charlotte more than two years ago.
The Pistons bounced back from their heartbreaking overtime loss in Game 2 with suffocating defense and opportunistic offense that whipped their fans into a frenzy.
Now, an NBA championship is very much within the Pistons' reach. No Eastern Conference team has won a title since 1998, but these Pistons are showing it may be a distinct possibility.
"I'm shocked," Pistons coach Larry Brown said, "but I'm really proud of the way we played."
Kobe Bryant, the hero of Game 2, was held without a field goal in the first half and the Lakers were limited to the lowest postseason point total in their storied franchise history.
"As I told the team, this is only one game,' Lakers coach Phil Jackson said after the Pistons regained control of a series they've dominated for all but a few minutes. "We have a couple days to get our feet on the ground and get ready for Game 4."
Hamilton scored 31 points and Chauncey Billups had 19 as Detroit's backcourt gave the Pistons just about all the offense they needed. Throw in double-figure rebounding performances by Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace, three steals apiece from Campbell and Tayshaun Prince, and it all added up to a lopsided game that could even be called a mismatch in favor of the team that entered the series as huge underdogs.
"Most of it was effort related," O'Neal said. "This is a tough challenge, but we are making it a lot tougher on ourselves."
Game 4 is Sunday night at the arena where two championship banners hang in the north end zone.
And if form holds, this series might not even make it back to Los Angeles for a Game 6 or 7.
Nothing worked for the Lakers, from Bryant's offense to O'Neal's touch to Karl Malone's ailing knee to Gary Payton's slow feet.
Campbell's breakaway dunk put the Pistons ahead 70-52, and Los Angeles never mounted anything even resembling a concerted comeback effort. The crowd went wild with 2:10 remaining when little-used rookie Darko Milicic got off the bench for his series debut.
Bryant finished with just 11 points on 4-for-13 shooting and O'Neal scored 14. No one else on the Lakers scored in double figures.
"We never get down. That was a heartbreaker in Game 2, and people thought we would be flat, but we were even more hungry," Billups said. "We just keep contesting everything. Tayshaun was great tonight contesting every shot Kobe took. The Big Fella is a problem for us, but Ben and Rasheed are down there working, and so is Elden."
After O'Neal opened the second half with a dunk, the Pistons got the offense in gear and began to pull away. Billups scored nine points in the first four minutes of the quarter on a pair of 3s and a drive around Payton for a three-point play, and a follow dunk by Prince forced the Lakers to call timeout trailing 54-40.
Asked why the Lakers didn't get him the ball more, O'Neal replied: "That's the story of my life, buddy."
Bryant eventually hit his first shot with 7:35 left in the third quarter, making an 18-footer, but the Pistons answered back with a gorgeous display of passing as Prince fed Rasheed Wallace five feet from the basket, and he in turn threaded a soft toss to Ben Wallace for a layup.
More of the same followed, the Lakers growing increasingly frustrated by each botched possession, the Pistons becoming more emboldened by their ability to create quality shots. It was 63-51 after three quarters, and the lead grew to 20 before the fourth quarter was even four minutes old.
Campbell even added another deflection just moments after his breakaway dunk, and Lindsey Hunter turned it into a layup to make it 72-52.
"Well, I don't think we can defend better than we did tonight," Brown said. "Hey, we held them to 68 points shooting 40 percent. For us that's an incredible accomplishment."
Bryant scored only one point in the first half, missing all four of his attempts from the field and committing one egregious turnover when he fired a pass several feet over the head of a teammate and into the second row of the stands.
But as bad as Bryant was, the Pistons weren't much better -- especially in the second quarter. Detroit went 12 consecutive possessions at one point without a field goal and missed five free throws in the period to allow the Lakers to stay within striking range. The Pistons led 39-32 at halftime behind 14 points from Hamilton.
After wavering for two days on whether he'd play, Malone came out for the opening tip wearing a knee brace for the first time in his career. His mobility was obviously limited, however, and the Pistons outrebounded the Lakers 20-10 in the first quarter to open an early 13-point lead.
-
game 4 nba finals
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (AP) -- The better team won again. And yes, the Detroit Pistons are proving they are clearly the better team.
Poised and primed for a title, Detroit took care of business while the Lakers were losing their cool. Building a lead early in the fourth quarter and holding it the rest of the way, the Pistons moved one victory closer to their first championship in 14 years with a convincing 88-80 victory Sunday night in Game 4 of the NBA Finals.
With a 3-1 lead, the surprising Pistons have made one thing crystal clear: They are the superior team, winning without egos and superstars -- and the problems that come with them.
'Sheed repeatedly posted up and took it strong to the rack.
"They have got a coach who won nine championships," Detroit coach Larry Brown said. "They have got two of the greatest players that are in their prime, so we can't take anything for granted. That's the thing we're going to talk about."
These were some of the scenes Pistons fans will cherish: Chauncey Billups making timely 3-pointers, Rasheed Wallace backpedalling downcourt with a minute left after making a jumper that capped his best game of the playoffs; Richard Hamilton calmly knocking down free throws.
As for the Lakers, the snapshots were these: Kobe Bryant screaming at the referees and picking up a late technical foul; Shaquille O'Neal yelling at someone in the Lakers' huddle, most likely Bryant, after two particularly egregious shot selections; Karl Malone staying parked on the bench for the entire fourth quarter, a nonfactor again; Gary Payton getting toasted by Hamilton again.
It's almost over for these Lakers, their breakup possibly coming in the next week. No team has ever come back from a 3-1 deficit in the finals, and the Lakers seem ill-equipped to become the first.
Game 5 is Tuesday night, and the Pistons -- heavy underdogs when the series began -- could become the first team to bring the title back to the Eastern Conference since Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls won it in 1998.
"Well, a disappointing night tonight," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "We got caught off-guard in the fourth quarter and were not able to handle the run they made in the fourth quarter sufficiently.
"Give credit to the Pistons."
Wallace scored 26, Billups had 23 and Hamilton 17 to lead Detroit, which outscored the Lakers 32-24 in the fourth quarter.
"We're just tough to play when we can get 'Sheed going like that," Billups said.
O'Neal had 36 and Bryant 20 for the Lakers, whose dysfunctional two-man show isn't enough to keep up with Detroit's depth and determination.
Kobe scored 20 but shot 32 percent from the field.
O'Neal took 21 shots and made 16, and he might have doubled those totals if his teammates had gotten him the ball more often. But Bryant somehow found it necessary to launch 14 attempts in the first half and 25 overall, many of which were both unwise and off-target.
No one else on the Lakers had more than eight points, and Los Angeles again was outrebounded and plagued by fouls.
"My shots, some of them were good and some of them stunk -- that's pretty much every game with me," Bryant said. "I think everyone's a little down right now."
Detroit made 29 field goals and 28 foul shots and scored 21 points on the fast break in what was the closest game of the series until the Pistons broke it open with a 7-0 run for a 77-67 lead with 4:52 left. The Lakers got no closer than seven the rest of the way as the Pistons made shots -- whether from the field or the foul line -- when they needed them.
"It was just my night," said Wallace, whose previous high in this postseason was 22. He shot 10-for-23 with 13 rebounds and two blocks, while Billups shot 7-for-12 and Billups was 5-for-11.
None of those lines was anything spectacular, and that was fitting for a team that gets the job done efficiently if not beautifully.
"We can play with this team," insisted O'Neal. "We haven't played well yet or shown it yet.
"It's a big challenge for us, and the stage is set," O'Neal said. "The pressure is on them, they have to close us out."
It was widely expected that Jackson would change his starting lineup or rotations, especially after five of the Lakers' veterans -- O'Neal, Bryant, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher and Devean George -- had an off-day conference with Jackson in a restroom at The Palace, pleading with him to put his trust in them since they know his triangle offense best. But Jackson went with his usual starting five.
Though the Lakers botched their first couple of possessions, they quickly began getting the ball to O'Neal deep in the low post. His first two shots were dunks, his next two were 5-footers from either side of the basket, and the fifth was an alley-oop dunk. O'Neal went 5-for-5 in a first quarter that ended with the Lakers ahead 22-21.
After missing a shot, O'Neal hit his next two midway through the second quarter and yelled "Try to stop that!" to no one in particular with an animated expression on his face. The pace of the quarter was slow thanks to 16 fouls before Mike James took control and ran two fast breaks by himself, converting both times to help Detroit to a 41-39 halftime lead.
Wallace began to carry the Pistons in the third quarter, dominating his matchup with Slava Medvedenko after Malone left the game. A late 6-0 run by the Lakers, ending with a steal and dunk by Bryant, produced a 56-56 deadlock entering the final period.
Hamilton hit two jumpers to open the fourth quarter, Ben Wallace rebounded his own missed free throw and banked it in for a 65-60 lead, and a 3 by Billups made it 70-64 with 6:20 left
After the Lakers got within three, Billups hit another 3-pointer to start the game-deciding 7-0 run.
"I told them how proud I was," coach Larry Brown said. "But no matter how you look at it, you've got to win four games in the series."
-
game 5 nba finals
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- The Lakers left the court in pieces. Karl Malone kept his head down, Shaquille O'Neal absently slapped a few high-fives and Kobe Bryant jogged in late, encased in his own thoughts.
The Pistons celebrated in concert, pulling their wives and children and entourages onto an increasingly shaky stage at the center of The Palace. They crowded around coach Larry Brown, who stood next to the Larry O'Brien Trophy -- a small, golden monument to the glories of teamwork.
"We did it the right way: working hard, working together," said president of basketball operations Joe Dumars, who built the first championship team in Detroit since his playing days. "This isn't a star system we've got here. I just think this is the ultimate team."
Detroit's 100-87 victory in Game 5 Tuesday night ended one of the most surprising NBA Finals in the last half-century -- the triumph of togetherness over talent, collaboration over celebrity.
Richard Hamilton scored 21 points, Ben Wallace had 18 points and 22 rebounds and Chauncey Billups got six assists in the runaway clincher. The Pistons surged ahead together, maintained the lead together and held a long, sweet celebration together.
"Nobody gave us a chance, but we felt we had a great chance," said Billups, the finals MVP with 21 points and 5.2 assists per game. "They had Shaq and Kobe, but we just felt we were a better team."
The Pistons won three straight home games to finish off the franchise's first title in 14 seasons, the third in franchise history. These Pistons are more Good Guys than Bad Boys, much less iconic than the star-studded Lakers, but much better friends and teammates.
Detroit is the first champion from the Eastern Conference since Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls in 1998, ending the West's five-year reign over the league with a demonstration of the biggest difference between the conferences: consistent, hard-nosed defense.
"This team is built on defense, everybody knows that," said Wallace, who finished five incredible games of defense on O'Neal, held 10 points below his career NBA Finals average. "They've got a lot of offensive weapons, but we got up in them pretty good."
The clincher was the most one-sided game of a lopsided series, essentially ending when the Pistons made a 17-4 run in the third quarter. Each player got a curtain call of sorts, with Hamilton removing his distinctive clear face mask and pointing at it triumphantly, no longer concerned for his oft-broken nose.
The team announced its Thursday parade schedule with 2:56 to play, drawing more cheers. Owner Bill Davidson was one of the first people on the floor as the confetti fell, celebrating the third championship in eight months for his sports empire -- and nearly getting broken in half by Ben Wallace's hug.
"I always have to be a little careful that I say I like them both equally, but this is a tremendous night," said the 81-year-old billionaire, the Pistons' majority owner since 1974 and owner of the Stanley Cup champion Tampa Bay Lightning and the WNBA champion Detroit Shock.
While his players and their fans celebrated, Brown shook a few hands and slipped away through a side tunnel. Moments after clinching the first championship of his 21-year NBA career, his only reaction was to wipe his face with a handkerchief.
Brown either had tears or sweat in his eyes -- probably a bit of both.
"I haven't, in my life, had disappointments too many times coaching this game," said Brown, the first coach to win titles in the NBA and the NCAA. "I told them before the game, it would be a great statement if we had an opportunity to win, because we do play the right way, and we are truly a team."
The locker room was bedlam, with Lindsey Hunter spraying champagne and Hamilton lighting the room with his smile. Kid Rock's black felt fedora was drenched with bubbly, and so was his stringy blond hair.
There were no stars hanging out with the Lakers, who failed to win a title for carpetbagging veterans Malone and Gary Payton. Malone couldn't even dress for Game 5, sidelined by a painful right knee injury for the first time in 194 career postseason games. It's probably a torn ligament, the Mailman said.
The fallout from this shocking loss won't be felt in Los Angeles for several months, because the Lakers are almost certain to make major changes to a team that was a title favorite both 10 months and two weeks ago.
Coach Phil Jackson said there's only a slim chance he'll return for a sixth season with the Lakers. Bryant, 29-for-86 in the Lakers' four losses, reiterated his plan to opt out of his contract this summer.
"It's going to be a funny summer," O'Neal said. "Everyone's going to take care of their own business, and everyone's going to do what's best for them. I don't know what that entails."
When the Lakers retool, they might want to look at the latest model from Detroit.
"We've probably set a blueprint for how teams are going to start putting their pieces together now," Hunter said. "We're so deep and so good, up and down the roster. Nobody could compete."
-
^^^^^^^^^
after reading all of that one can conclude that
-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics
-
^ I would still take Duncan over Shaq. In 2003 when we were looking for our 4th consecutive title, who showed up put an end to our run for good? Duncan! The guy is amazing. Obviously Shaq was the more dominant one, but Ducan is the better rebounder, shot blocker, defender, free-throw shooter, and more importantly - leader.
-
^^^^^^^^^
after reading all of that one can conclude that
-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics
THat was a brutal series for the Lakers; that series was the one where i quit fucking with Kobe, as he just pissed me off. Shaq could barely miss, yet there were 5-10 minute stretches where he couldn't get the ball because Kobe, in his own words, was taking shots that "Stunk". Shaq was great offensively in that series, but it was clear that Kobe wanted to be the man, and failed horribly trying, possibly costing them a championship. With all that, if the Lakers had to keep Shaq or Kobe at the time, Kobe was the right choice as he is younger. HOwever, Kobne was a complete bitch in that series, and someone NIK puts the blame on Shaq. Anyone watching those games knows Shaq had a tought time on Defense, but so did the whole damn team; its pretty hard to put blame on the only guy who showed up for the series, unless you are a serious Kobe dickrider.
Still, Duncan has at least 5 great years left in him; dude is not dependant on his athleticism, just his smarts, so he will play at a higher level longer than Shaq.
However, Shaq at his very best would MURDER Duncan at his very best; Duncan would have no answer for a young Shaq in his prime, just as no big in the history of the league would.
-
^ I would still take Duncan over Shaq. In 2003 when we were looking for our 4th consecutive title, who showed up put an end to our run for good? Duncan! The guy is amazing. Obviously Shaq was the more dominant one, but Ducan is the better rebounder, shot blocker, defender, free-throw shooter, and more importantly - leader.
shaq has duncan's #
yeah and in 04' what happened lol
don't pretend like duncan has shaq's card. shaq has duncan's card when it comes to the playoffs.
-
^^^^^^^^^
after reading all of that one can conclude that
-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics
LMFAO@Kobe opting out "disturbing things"...This proves that you are a Kobe HATER. EVERY superstar opts out of their contract to get the max deal...
Fact of the matter is, Shaq was out of shape, and he could only show up with a dominant performance every OTHER game, and it wasn't enough. Remember the talks around that time of him being too tired to play two good games in a row? Then consider that the offense wasn't running through Kobe (when Phil wanted it to), who was playing amazing basketball at the time. That was the biggest disruption, not Kobe opting out, as you would ridiculously claim... :-X
-
^^^^^^^^^
after reading all of that one can conclude that
-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics
THat was a brutal series for the Lakers; that series was the one where i quit fucking with Kobe, as he just pissed me off. Shaq could barely miss, yet there were 5-10 minute stretches where he couldn't get the ball because Kobe, in his own words, was taking shots that "Stunk". Shaq was great offensively in that series, but it was clear that Kobe wanted to be the man, and failed horribly trying, possibly costing them a championship. With all that, if the Lakers had to keep Shaq or Kobe at the time, Kobe was the right choice as he is younger. HOwever, Kobne was a complete bitch in that series, and someone NIK puts the blame on Shaq. Anyone watching those games knows Shaq had a tought time on Defense, but so did the whole damn team; its pretty hard to put blame on the only guy who showed up for the series, unless you are a serious Kobe dickrider.
Still, Duncan has at least 5 great years left in him; dude is not dependant on his athleticism, just his smarts, so he will play at a higher level longer than Shaq.
However, Shaq at his very best would MURDER Duncan at his very best; Duncan would have no answer for a young Shaq in his prime, just as no big in the history of the league would.
No big in the history of the league would have an answer for Shaq? AHAHAHAHA. That's pretty much claiming Shaq was the greatest big ever, which is far from being the real...In the end, yes, Kobe had a worse series with NUMBERS. Shaq, however, is what killed the team overall...If you were following the team at the time, you would know this. Kobe was coming off amazing performances in the playoffs, and the talk around the league was that Shaq was too out of shape to put up 2 good games in a row (which turned out to be true). Somehow, through threats of "not playing defense or rebounding", Shaq got the offense to run through him, despite the fact that Phil thought it was Kobe's turn to run it... It ened up killing us when Ben Wallace shut him down and held him to a few games of under 10 rebounds and under 20 points IN THE FINALS. THATS NOT GOOD WHEN THE OFFENSE IS IN YOUR HANDS...Had Kobe been running the show without a disruptive Shaq, like he shoulda' been, I highly doubt his numbers would have been the same. Shaq failed LA for 2 consecutive years as the boss. After the first 3peat, Kobe shoulda taken over, like Magic did for Kareem. 2003 woulda marked the beginning of the 2nd 3peat under Kobe's reign had Shaq been a tad bit more mature...PeACe
-
^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff said
-
^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff said
Kobe wasn't unquestionably better than Shaq by 2004? LOL if you deny this. The fact that Shaq demanded the offense, and didn't come through (who cares about percentages, dude showed up EVERY OTHER game) obviously threw the rest of the team off...Deep down inside, you know what's up. Kobe shoulda' had the offense by '03. I GUARANTEE the dynasty would still be alive had that been the case...PeACe
-
^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff said
Kobe wasn't unquestionably better than Shaq by 2004? LOL if you deny this. The fact that Shaq demanded the offense, and didn't come through (who cares about percentages, dude showed up EVERY OTHER game) obviously threw the rest of the team off...Deep down inside, you know what's up. Kobe shoulda' had the offense by '03. I GUARANTEE the dynasty would still be alive had that been the case...PeACe
the sad thing is that the offense did run through kobe in that series and kobe let us down big time.
fact of the matter was when shaq got the ball he delivered. if shaq was out of shape so was kobe because he didn't put up numbers qutie as nice when it mattered that shaq did. kobe's numbers were more unbalanced than shaq's were.
look at the stats
Shaq 2004 NBA finals:
S. O'Neal
26.6 points per game, 10.8 rebounds per game, 1.6 assists per game, over .500 field goal percentage! what more could you want from shaq, when the team wasn't able to get the ball to him??
game 1:
Shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 13 16 .813 0 0 8 12 5 11 1 0 1 6 4 34
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
47 10 27 .370 1 6 4 4 1 4 4 4 2 3 2 25
after game one you can conclude that shaq
-shot better than kobe 2.5x
-and was more agressive on defense
-was NOT affected by detroits defense, unlike kobe
you can also conclude that
-the offense ran through kobe as shaq shot 16 times and kobe shot 27
game 2:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
48 10 20 .500 0 0 9 14 3 7 3 0 1 3 5 29
Kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
49 14 27 .519 1 5 4 5 0 4 7 2 0 5 5 33
after game two you can concludethat shaq:
- was not affected by the detroit defense
- put together his second straight great game (disproving your showing up every other night theory)
you can also concluded:
-the offense ran through mostly kobe as he shot 27 shots and shaq shot 20, proving the theory that if you feed shaq the ball more you win....which they did
game 3:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
38 7 14 .500 0 0 0 2 2 8 1 1 0 2 5 14
Kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 4 13 .307 0 4 3 3 0 3 5 1 1 4 3 11
after game 3 you can conclude that:
-shaq and kobe were both affected by the detroit defense
-shaq was less affected as, he still shot at .500
-kobe's performance was more of a 180 degree change than shaq's
-the offense never got off the ground
game 4:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
47 16 21 .762 0 0 4 11 3 20 2 0 1 2 4 36
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 8 25 .320 2 6 2 2 0 0 2 1 0 3 3 20
after game 4 you can conclude:
-shaq rebounded from his his bad performance from game 3
-kobe did not posting up his second consecutive bad game of the series
-the offense definately ran through kobe this game as he jacked up more shots than shaq but ended up with LESS, i said LESS poitns
-kobe was affected by the detroit defense
-shaq was not affected by the defense
-shaq showed up on the defensive end kobe did not
-shaq grabbed 20 rebounds, kobe not 1
-shaq 3 great performances 1 bad one
-kobe 1 great performance 1 average, and two bad ones, reverses your theory about shaq showing up every other game
game 5
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
35 7 13 .538 0 0 6 16 2 8 1 1 0 1 4 20
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 7 21 .333 0 2 10 11 1 3 4 1 0 3 2 24
after game five you can conclude:
-for the FIFTH i said FIIIIIIIFTH straight game the offense ran through mostly kobe
-kobe took far more shots than shaq yet they ended up with almost the same points
-kobe was devastated by detroits defense, where as shaq was less
- shaq still turned in a good performance where as kobe turned in an average one at best
- finals score is shaq 3 great games, 1 bad one , 1 good one ; kobe 3 bad games, 1 bad one, 1 average one
after 2004 season the offense ran through kobe 110%, then we failed to make playoffs
after 2004 season the offense runs through shaq some where else, he almsot wins mvp, and is one rebound away from making it to the finals again
you're wrong NIK just admit it
-
^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff said
Kobe wasn't unquestionably better than Shaq by 2004? LOL if you deny this. The fact that Shaq demanded the offense, and didn't come through (who cares about percentages, dude showed up EVERY OTHER game) obviously threw the rest of the team off...Deep down inside, you know what's up. Kobe shoulda' had the offense by '03. I GUARANTEE the dynasty would still be alive had that been the case...PeACe
the sad thing is that the offense did run through kobe in that series and kobe let us down big time.
fact of the matter was when shaq got the ball he delivered. if shaq was out of shape so was kobe because he didn't put up numbers qutie as nice when it mattered that shaq did. kobe's numbers were more unbalanced than shaq's were.
look at the stats
Shaq 2004 NBA finals:
S. O'Neal
26.6 points per game, 10.8 rebounds per game, 1.6 assists per game, over .500 field goal percentage! what more could you want from shaq, when the team wasn't able to get the ball to him??
game 1:
Shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 13 16 .813 0 0 8 12 5 11 1 0 1 6 4 34
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
47 10 27 .370 1 6 4 4 1 4 4 4 2 3 2 25
after game one you can conclude that shaq
-shot better than kobe 2.5x
-and was more agressive on defense
-was NOT affected by detroits defense, unlike kobe
you can also conclude that
-the offense ran through kobe as shaq shot 16 times and kobe shot 27
game 2:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
48 10 20 .500 0 0 9 14 3 7 3 0 1 3 5 29
Kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
49 14 27 .519 1 5 4 5 0 4 7 2 0 5 5 33
after game two you can concludethat shaq:
- was not affected by the detroit defense
- put together his second straight great game (disproving your showing up every other night theory)
you can also concluded:
-the offense ran through mostly kobe as he shot 27 shots and shaq shot 20, proving the theory that if you feed shaq the ball more you win....which they did
game 3:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
38 7 14 .500 0 0 0 2 2 8 1 1 0 2 5 14
Kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 4 13 .307 0 4 3 3 0 3 5 1 1 4 3 11
after game 3 you can conclude that:
-shaq and kobe were both affected by the detroit defense
-shaq was less affected as, he still shot at .500
-kobe's performance was more of a 180 degree change than shaq's
-the offense never got off the ground
game 4:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
47 16 21 .762 0 0 4 11 3 20 2 0 1 2 4 36
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 8 25 .320 2 6 2 2 0 0 2 1 0 3 3 20
after game 4 you can conclude:
-shaq rebounded from his his bad performance from game 3
-kobe did not posting up his second consecutive bad game of the series
-the offense definately ran through kobe this game as he jacked up more shots than shaq but ended up with LESS, i said LESS poitns
-kobe was affected by the detroit defense
-shaq was not affected by the defense
-shaq showed up on the defensive end kobe did not
-shaq grabbed 20 rebounds, kobe not 1
-shaq 3 great performances 1 bad one
-kobe 1 great performance 1 average, and two bad ones, reverses your theory about shaq showing up every other game
game 5
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
35 7 13 .538 0 0 6 16 2 8 1 1 0 1 4 20
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 7 21 .333 0 2 10 11 1 3 4 1 0 3 2 24
after game five you can conclude:
-for the FIFTH i said FIIIIIIIFTH straight game the offense ran through mostly kobe
-kobe took far more shots than shaq yet they ended up with almost the same points
-kobe was devastated by detroits defense, where as shaq was less
- shaq still turned in a good performance where as kobe turned in an average one at best
- finals score is shaq 3 great games, 1 bad one , 1 good one ; kobe 3 bad games, 1 bad one, 1 average one
after 2004 season the offense ran through kobe 110%, then we failed to make playoffs
after 2004 season the offense runs through shaq some where else, he almsot wins mvp, and is one rebound away from making it to the finals again
you're wrong NIK just admit it
Don Jacob, you are just influenced by the media; the media, who hate Kobe, likely manipulated those numbers to make it look like Kobe took more shots, shot a far worse percentage, and thus played worse than Shaq. However, if you ask NIK, that is not the case. It was Shaq who took ridiculous fadeaway off balance three's (he wore number 8 this series), it was Shaq who took forced shots when double teamed despite having a center who was shooting like 60 percent for the series.
Enough with the stats and facts, NIK is right because, as he says, if he "truly believes" something, than he is right and thus entitled to his opinion!
-
^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff said
Kobe wasn't unquestionably better than Shaq by 2004? LOL if you deny this. The fact that Shaq demanded the offense, and didn't come through (who cares about percentages, dude showed up EVERY OTHER game) obviously threw the rest of the team off...Deep down inside, you know what's up. Kobe shoulda' had the offense by '03. I GUARANTEE the dynasty would still be alive had that been the case...PeACe
the sad thing is that the offense did run through kobe in that series and kobe let us down big time.
fact of the matter was when shaq got the ball he delivered. if shaq was out of shape so was kobe because he didn't put up numbers qutie as nice when it mattered that shaq did. kobe's numbers were more unbalanced than shaq's were.
look at the stats
Shaq 2004 NBA finals:
S. O'Neal
26.6 points per game, 10.8 rebounds per game, 1.6 assists per game, over .500 field goal percentage! what more could you want from shaq, when the team wasn't able to get the ball to him??
game 1:
Shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 13 16 .813 0 0 8 12 5 11 1 0 1 6 4 34
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
47 10 27 .370 1 6 4 4 1 4 4 4 2 3 2 25
after game one you can conclude that shaq
-shot better than kobe 2.5x
-and was more agressive on defense
-was NOT affected by detroits defense, unlike kobe
you can also conclude that
-the offense ran through kobe as shaq shot 16 times and kobe shot 27
game 2:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
48 10 20 .500 0 0 9 14 3 7 3 0 1 3 5 29
Kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
49 14 27 .519 1 5 4 5 0 4 7 2 0 5 5 33
after game two you can concludethat shaq:
- was not affected by the detroit defense
- put together his second straight great game (disproving your showing up every other night theory)
you can also concluded:
-the offense ran through mostly kobe as he shot 27 shots and shaq shot 20, proving the theory that if you feed shaq the ball more you win....which they did
game 3:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
38 7 14 .500 0 0 0 2 2 8 1 1 0 2 5 14
Kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 4 13 .307 0 4 3 3 0 3 5 1 1 4 3 11
after game 3 you can conclude that:
-shaq and kobe were both affected by the detroit defense
-shaq was less affected as, he still shot at .500
-kobe's performance was more of a 180 degree change than shaq's
-the offense never got off the ground
game 4:
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
47 16 21 .762 0 0 4 11 3 20 2 0 1 2 4 36
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 8 25 .320 2 6 2 2 0 0 2 1 0 3 3 20
after game 4 you can conclude:
-shaq rebounded from his his bad performance from game 3
-kobe did not posting up his second consecutive bad game of the series
-the offense definately ran through kobe this game as he jacked up more shots than shaq but ended up with LESS, i said LESS poitns
-kobe was affected by the detroit defense
-shaq was not affected by the defense
-shaq showed up on the defensive end kobe did not
-shaq grabbed 20 rebounds, kobe not 1
-shaq 3 great performances 1 bad one
-kobe 1 great performance 1 average, and two bad ones, reverses your theory about shaq showing up every other game
game 5
shaq:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
35 7 13 .538 0 0 6 16 2 8 1 1 0 1 4 20
kobe:
MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
45 7 21 .333 0 2 10 11 1 3 4 1 0 3 2 24
after game five you can conclude:
-for the FIFTH i said FIIIIIIIFTH straight game the offense ran through mostly kobe
-kobe took far more shots than shaq yet they ended up with almost the same points
-kobe was devastated by detroits defense, where as shaq was less
- shaq still turned in a good performance where as kobe turned in an average one at best
- finals score is shaq 3 great games, 1 bad one , 1 good one ; kobe 3 bad games, 1 bad one, 1 average one
after 2004 season the offense ran through kobe 110%, then we failed to make playoffs
after 2004 season the offense runs through shaq some where else, he almsot wins mvp, and is one rebound away from making it to the finals again
you're wrong NIK just admit it
Don Jacob, you are just influenced by the media; the media, who hate Kobe, likely manipulated those numbers to make it look like Kobe took more shots, shot a far worse percentage, and thus played worse than Shaq. However, if you ask NIK, that is not the case. It was Shaq who took ridiculous fadeaway off balance three's (he wore number 8 this series), it was Shaq who took forced shots when double teamed despite having a center who was shooting like 60 percent for the series.
Enough with the stats and facts, NIK is right because, as he says, if he "truly believes" something, than he is right and thus entitled to his opinion!
I'd say NIK got punked again. Prepare yourselves for some backpedaling and LMAO'ing from him.
And teecee, you forgot that NIK's opinions are "very valid" and he has the internet status to back that up.
-
^^^what he'll do is find one small detail in which don jacob made a mistake and go on about that and ignore the fact he was proved wrong.
-
Where was I proved wrong? None of you fucks even watched the series...The offense ran through Shaq, this isn't up for debate...The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe. By EVERY 4th quarter, Shaq was already worn out, and couldn't even get off the ground. KOBE AVERAGED MORE BLOCKS THAN SHAQ. DISGUSTING...SHAQ IS SUPPOSED TO SHOOT A HIGH PERCENTAGE! Every shot he took was a lay-up or dunk. Yes, Kobe had a bad shooting series, but Shaq kept bitching at him every chance he got! When Shaq sat down, Kobe took over and ran the offense the right way, with no fat distractions...That's how Kobe won Game 2. Offense runs through Kobe, Lakers win that series. Shaq was out to prove that he was woth $30 million a year, and still had games with under 10 rebounds and under 20 points...The team as a whole had a bad series, but I GUARANTEE more wins had the offense ran through Kobe and had Shaq not been requesting the ball every trip down the floor, putting pressure on not just Kobe, but THE WHOLE TEAM...PeACe
-
Where was I proved wrong?
well i'll break it down for you again...
The offense ran through Shaq, this isn't up for debate...
total shots attempted:
Shaq=84
Kobe=113
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe.
minutes per game
shaq=42.6
kobe=46.2
oh wow what a difference ::) your young swing man averaged 3.6 minutes more than your old center
(game 1 kobe played 2 more minutes than shaq, game two 1 more minute than shaq, and in game 4 shaq actually played more minutes than kobe)
KOBE AVERAGED MORE BLOCKS THAN SHAQ.
blocks per game:
shaq- 0.6
kobe-0.6
(nevermind all of kobe's blocks came from the perimeter, as most of detroits offense came from there, equaling less shot block opportunities in the low post)
DISGUSTING...SHAQ IS SUPPOSED TO SHOOT A HIGH PERCENTAGE! Every shot he took was a lay-up or dunk.
actually their were a lot of those one handed banks that he's known for, but even if all he did was dunk and lay up the ball how do you say ben wallace stopped shaq??
BACK PEDDLING MOMENT #1^^^^^
also shaq is a 7'1-2, 300 pound center, he's not going to pull of for three pointers ,lol
shaq's fg% ( or how effective ben wallace was on shaq
game 1: 81.3%
game 2: 50%
game 3: 50%
game 4: 76.2%
game 5: 53.8%
Yes, Kobe had a bad shooting series, but Shaq kept bitching at him every chance he got!
that's your excuse? you mean to tell me kobe can shoot with 10 hands in his face but can't shoot if shaq is 'bitching at him'?
by saying this you're essentially saying two things
1) kobe is a pussy
2) detroit's defense had nothing to do with it
which we know the ladder is not true because detroit had more answer for kobe than they did for shaq, they were able to 'stop' or trip up kobe while they were not able to trip up shaq. anyone who watched that series (instead of watching kobe) knows that detroit had no answer for shaq, their only answer for shaq was denying him the ball by defending everyone else and their passing lanes to him. they knew they could win the series with kobe jacking up shots, they couldn't win if they had shaq scoring and setting up plays though.
When Shaq sat down, Kobe took over and ran the offense the right way, with no fat distractions...That's how Kobe won Game 2.
you didn't really watch that game huh? yeah sure kobe hit the three but look what shaq did when he was tired in the second half and in overtime
Shaquille O'Neal added 29 points for the Lakers[/u], six of them coming in the extra period as Los Angeles improved to 7-0 in overtime games during the regular season and postseason.
This time, things looked fairly hopeless for the Lakers as they trailed by six points with less than 40 seconds left in regulation. But O'Neal converted a three-point play and Chauncey Billups missed a runner for Detroit, giving the Lakers a last shot.
sorry buddy but kobe didn't win that game for us , he had A LOT of help from shaq
Offense runs through Kobe, Lakers win that series.
again the offense did run through kobe, it couldn't run through shaq because the team couldn't get him the ball.
fact IS and it's highlighted perfectly in post game articles and stats that when kobe heads the lakers they can't win a playoff series.
again the offense ran through kobe
shots attempted
shaq: 84
kobe: 113
Shaq was out to prove that he was woth $30 million a year, and still had games with under 10 rebounds and under 20 points...
oh really ?
shaq:
game 1: 34 points , 11 rebounds
game 2: 29 points, 7 rebounds
game 3: 14 points, 8 rebounds
game 4: 36 points, 20 rebounds
game 5: 20 points , 8 rebounds
average: 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg
^^^^that's alot better than
kobe:
game 1: 25 points, 4 rebounds
game 2: 33 points, 4 rebounds
game 3: 11 points, 3 rebounds
game 4: 20 points, 0 rebounds
game 5: 24 points, 3 rebounds
average: 22.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg
Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe 2004 nba finals
The team as a whole had a bad series, but I GUARANTEE more wins had the offense ran through Kobe and had Shaq not been requesting the ball every trip down the floor, putting pressure on not just Kobe, but THE WHOLE TEAM...PeACe
again the offense did run through kobe he attempted far more shots and his time of possestion far did shaq's. in those games wehre shaq outscored kobe, kobe attempted moer shots than him,lol. again the offense was kobe's and we lost ....badly. had the lakers been able to pound the ball into shaq better we would have had a better chance of winning this series. also let their be a healthy karl malone, and let their be a phil jackson who let's derek fisher start over payton.
-
+1 for the Don. He has been DOMINATING this debate
-
^+1
i'm just keeping it real
-
LOL@"dominating" the debate...He keeps mentioning how Shaq played less minutes and had less shot attempts, but the offense was running through him. Why is this? THATS RIGHT
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe. By EVERY 4th quarter, Shaq was already worn out, and couldn't even get off the ground.
Why ignore my main point?
Saying no one had an answer for Shaq in thats series is pretty funny, considering the amount of analysts claiming Ben Wallace shut him down by wearing him out early in the games...Also funny how you keep ignoring that Kobe was undisputedly superior by 2004...PeACe
-
Not against the Pistons he wasn't. D-Wade and LBJ have both beaten the pistons in a playoff series. Something Kobe hasn't done
-
^Kobe had ONE series against them...Every Laker had a bad series against Detroit in that series. Kobe was STILL superior to Shaq from 2002 on...PeACe
-
LOL@"dominating" the debate...He keeps mentioning how Shaq played less minutes and had less shot attempts, but the offense was running through him. Why is this? THATS RIGHT
the offense did not run through shaq, it ran through kobe, the lakers couldn't even get shaq the ball.
still the fact remains that shaq payed 3 minutes less and shot like 40 less shots and still managed to score more and be more productive than kobe lol , your'e done.
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe. By EVERY 4th quarter, Shaq was already worn out, and couldn't even get off the ground.
Why ignore my main point?
how am i ignoring you when i posted this?
minutes per game
shaq=42.6
kobe=46.2
oh wow what a difference your young swing man averaged 3.6 minutes more than your old center
(game 1 kobe played 2 more minutes than shaq, game two 1 more minute than shaq, and in game 4 shaq actually played more minutes than kobe)
and this
you didn't really watch that game huh? yeah sure kobe hit the three but look what shaq did when he was tired in the second half and in overtime
Shaquille O'Neal added 29 points for the Lakers[/u], six of them coming in the extra period as Los Angeles improved to 7-0 in overtime games during the regular season and postseason.
This time, things looked fairly hopeless for the Lakers as they trailed by six points with less than 40 seconds left in regulation. But O'Neal converted a three-point play and Chauncey Billups missed a runner for Detroit, giving the Lakers a last shot.
sorry buddy but kobe didn't win that game for us , he had A LOT of help from shaq
Saying no one had an answer for Shaq in thats series is pretty funny, considering the amount of analysts claiming Ben Wallace shut him down by wearing him out early in the games...Also funny how you keep ignoring that Kobe was undisputedly superior by 2004...PeACe
1. shaq's fg% ( or how effective ben wallace was on shaq
game 1: 81.3%
game 2: 50%
game 3: 50%
game 4: 76.2%
game 5: 53.8%
shaq:
game 1: 34 points , 11 rebounds
game 2: 29 points, 7 rebounds
game 3: 14 points, 8 rebounds
game 4: 36 points, 20 rebounds
game 5: 20 points , 8 rebounds
average: 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg
i don't know how that is slowing shaq down when he wasn't even averaging those numbers in the regular season, from the looks of those stats shaq was having a better game against wallace. the only thing wallace and wallace shut down were the passing lanes TO shaq.
2. if kobe was such a stud then why couldn't he carry the team to the championship? i mean shit he shot like 120 shots....it's not like he wasn't getting the ball. if kobe was so superior to shaq then he should have blossomed in that series shaq was getting no passes , so kobe could have easily taken over that series. but fact was he got shut down hard core by the defense. shaq didn't. larry brown knew this and this is why they won.
-
^Kobe had ONE series against them...Every Laker had a bad series against Detroit in that series. Kobe was STILL superior to Shaq from 2002 on...PeACe
he had more series against the suns and he managed to do WORSE against them.
-
Again, you keep denying that the offense was running through Shaq because he was too fat to hold up for a whole game. That makes no sense. And you keep ignoring that this was not vintage Shaq, this was Shaq who put up less than 10 rebounds in 2/5 Finals games and couldn't pick up more than half a block average over the whole series...Come on now...PeACe
-
^Kobe had ONE series against them...Every Laker had a bad series against Detroit in that series. Kobe was STILL superior to Shaq from 2002 on...PeACe
he had more series against the suns and he managed to do WORSE against them.
With MUCH LESS of a supporting cast.
-
Not against the Pistons he wasn't. D-Wade and LBJ have both beaten the pistons in a playoff series. Something Kobe hasn't done
Every player has one team he always struggles against. For Kobe - its the Pistons. He struggles against them eve in the regular season (as this season proved).
But don't get it twisted, Wade and Lebron are playing against a weakers Pistons team. You can make an argument for Wade, but Lebron couldn't beat the Pistons till Big Ben darted for Chi town.
-
LOL@"dominating" the debate...He keeps mentioning how Shaq played less minutes and had less shot attempts, but the offense was running through him. Why is this? THATS RIGHT
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe. By EVERY 4th quarter, Shaq was already worn out, and couldn't even get off the ground.
Why ignore my main point?
Saying no one had an answer for Shaq in thats series is pretty funny, considering the amount of analysts claiming Ben Wallace shut him down by wearing him out early in the games...Also funny how you keep ignoring that Kobe was undisputedly superior by 2004...PeACe
Kobe was better throughout much of that season, but YOU are ignoring that Shaq was better than Kobe IN THE FINALS, when elite players are at their best. Kobe sucked, case closed.
-
Looking back, Kobe did take some awful shots in Game 2...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIT_SLL25GA
I'd love to see that series again.
-
Again, you keep denying that the offense was running through Shaq because he was too fat to hold up for a whole game. That makes no sense. And you keep ignoring that this was not vintage Shaq, this was Shaq who put up less than 10 rebounds in 2/5 Finals games and couldn't pick up more than half a block average over the whole series...Come on now...PeACe
i like how you ignore that kobe wasn't playing like vintage kobe, and when given the chance to have the offense run through him he dropped the ball. he's dropped the ball four consecutive seasons when given that chance, and you want shaq to defer to that? no way
if shaq couldn't hold it up for a whole game than neither could kobe, shaq only played 3.6 minutes less than kobe in that series, what are you talking about. he put forth an enormous effort.
fact of the matter is shaq stepped up his game from averaging 20 points to averaging 27 points, he stepped it up on LESS shot attempts and LESS involvment, even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him. also, he was still out performing most other mvp winners before and after that series. in fact if the lakers woiuld have won that series shaq would have been the mvp....you can't deny that.
-
JAKE how do u call yourself a Laker fan?? LOL I think you are just a SHAQ Fan and not a actual fan of the LA Lakers
-
^u can't be serious
-
^u can't be serious
I dont know homie it just seems like you are always dissing the lakers and kobe to piss off NIK
-
i certainly don't agree with his blind analysis. but what you can't deny is that when the offense ran through shaq with kobe as the SIDEKICK, the lakers won more. shaq was still the biggest asset in the league. i'm still pissed we traded away potentially 2 championships. that's a fan, someone who can critique the downfall of a dynasty because of his disgust.
-
i certainly don't agree with his blind analysis. but what you can't deny is that when the offense ran through shaq with kobe as the SIDEKICK, the lakers won more. shaq was still the biggest asset in the league. i'm still pissed we traded away potentially 2 championships. that's a fan, someone who can critique the downfall of a dynasty because of his disgust.
Nah I gotta agree with Spice on this one. You know me and you have never had any problems but it really seems like you're a Shaq fan who only tolerated Kobe because he was on your favorite players team.
-
1. laker fan yes
2. shaq fan yes
3. kobe fan no
<------
-
Well color me disappointed.
-
LOL@"dominating" the debate...He keeps mentioning how Shaq played less minutes and had less shot attempts, but the offense was running through him. Why is this? THATS RIGHT
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe. By EVERY 4th quarter, Shaq was already worn out, and couldn't even get off the ground.
Why ignore my main point?
Saying no one had an answer for Shaq in thats series is pretty funny, considering the amount of analysts claiming Ben Wallace shut him down by wearing him out early in the games...Also funny how you keep ignoring that Kobe was undisputedly superior by 2004...PeACe
Kobe was better throughout much of that season, but YOU are ignoring that Shaq was better than Kobe IN THE FINALS, when elite players are at their best. Kobe sucked, case closed.
The whole team sucked, but a lazy Shaq that couldn't play a full game was the one "leading"...That's where the problem was.
-
Looking back, Kobe did take some awful shots in Game 2...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIT_SLL25GA
I'd love to see that series again.
Give Kobe the offense, and that's what he'd be doing the whole series...
-
Again, you keep denying that the offense was running through Shaq because he was too fat to hold up for a whole game. That makes no sense. And you keep ignoring that this was not vintage Shaq, this was Shaq who put up less than 10 rebounds in 2/5 Finals games and couldn't pick up more than half a block average over the whole series...Come on now...PeACe
i like how you ignore that kobe wasn't playing like vintage kobe, and when given the chance to have the offense run through him he dropped the ball. he's dropped the ball four consecutive seasons when given that chance, and you want shaq to defer to that? no way
if shaq couldn't hold it up for a whole game than neither could kobe, shaq only played 3.6 minutes less than kobe in that series, what are you talking about. he put forth an enormous effort.
fact of the matter is shaq stepped up his game from averaging 20 points to averaging 27 points, he stepped it up on LESS shot attempts and LESS involvment, even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him. also, he was still out performing most other mvp winners before and after that series. in fact if the lakers woiuld have won that series shaq would have been the mvp....you can't deny that.
Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have a vintage Kobe series...After his amazing performance in Game 2, he only had 13 attempts in Game 3!!! If the Lakers were running under Kobe, NO WAY that happens..
even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him
LMAO!
-
i certainly don't agree with his blind analysis. but what you can't deny is that when the offense ran through shaq with kobe as the SIDEKICK, the lakers won more. shaq was still the biggest asset in the league. i'm still pissed we traded away potentially 2 championships. that's a fan, someone who can critique the downfall of a dynasty because of his disgust.
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh? Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
-
Shaq goes for under 10 rebounds in 3/5 Finals games...And you're telling me this is not a Shaq falling out of his prime, ready to hand the torch over to the next best thing? LMAO! Shaq was stubborn. Jake is stubborn. He will never be a Laker fan like he once was unless Shaq is traded back here...PeACe
-
i think don jacob is guilty of the same thing kobe is. he just wants to win and knows that when the lakers traded shaq away they compromised winning championships. we ALL know kobe aint shit in the west witout another superstar caliber player
-
i think don jacob is guilty of the same thing kobe is. he just wants to win and knows that when the lakers traded shaq away they compromised winning championships. we ALL know kobe aint shit in the west witout another superstar caliber player
But who is?
Signing Shaq to his ludicrous demands ($30,000,000 a year) woulda left us handicapped with no money to re-sign Kobe...SHAQ ruined this franchise, it's in BOOKS, but Jake loves Shaq too much, so he overlooks what went down...PeACe
-
why can't the lakers play a lil luxury tax? apparently they are the biggest team in the 2nd largest media market in the country
-
why can't the lakers play a lil luxury tax? apparently they are the biggest team in the 2nd largest media market in the country
Lakers have paid the tax when it was needed...It wouldn't have made a difference in '04...A way out-of-prime Shaq wanted $30 mill and that woulda' restricted a big contract for Kobe, who said he was opting out a year in advance. Do you think Shaq in 2004 deserved 30 mill a year? LMAO. NO ONE IN BASKETBALL GETS PAID THAT MUCH!...PeACe
-
No i do not think shaq is worth 30 mill a year. im talking about right now the lakers signing guys and pay a lil luxury tax
-
KG can only opt out NEXT year. :-\
-
Looking back, Kobe did take some awful shots in Game 2...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIT_SLL25GA
I'd love to see that series again.
Give Kobe the offense, and that's what he'd be doing the whole series...
lol he had the offense he shot FAR FAR more than shaq did
-
Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have a vintage Kobe series...After his amazing performance in Game 2, he only had 13 attempts in Game 3!!! If the Lakers were running under Kobe, NO WAY that happens..
shaq/or the other lakers for that matter weren't allowed to have a vintage lakers series....larry brown was one step ahead of everyone with his defense.....you can't say kobe wasn't heading the offense when everyone else had 4-5 shots and shaq had like what 10/11 in that same game 3.....you're giving shaq too much negative credit and the pistons not enough positive credit. face it kobe HAD the offense, and coudln't pull throug.
even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him
LMAO!
how is that funny when he was grabbing over or near 30 points in many of those games. situation determines behavior. notice that kobe's number dipped in the same games shaq's did as well. detroit defense right there. detroit put a dam on the passing lanes inside which eliminated shaq and malone down low, which forced the lakers to take wild out side shots....in particularly kobe. larry brown knew what he was doing, he knew the lakers couldn't win the series with kobe jacking up shots. eliminate shaq from the offense by cutting off all routes leading to him and the pistons gain the leverage.
-
Looking back, Kobe did take some awful shots in Game 2...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIT_SLL25GA
I'd love to see that series again.
Give Kobe the offense, and that's what he'd be doing the whole series...
lol he had the offense he shot FAR FAR more than shaq did
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
-
Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have a vintage Kobe series...After his amazing performance in Game 2, he only had 13 attempts in Game 3!!! If the Lakers were running under Kobe, NO WAY that happens..
shaq/or the other lakers for that matter weren't allowed to have a vintage lakers series....larry brown was one step ahead of everyone with his defense.....you can't say kobe wasn't heading the offense when everyone else had 4-5 shots and shaq had like what 10/11 in that same game 3.....you're giving shaq too much negative credit and the pistons not enough positive credit. face it kobe HAD the offense, and coudln't pull throug.
even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him
LMAO!
how is that funny when he was grabbing over or near 30 points in many of those games. situation determines behavior. notice that kobe's number dipped in the same games shaq's did as well. detroit defense right there. detroit put a dam on the passing lanes inside which eliminated shaq and malone down low, which forced the lakers to take wild out side shots....in particularly kobe. larry brown knew what he was doing, he knew the lakers couldn't win the series with kobe jacking up shots. eliminate shaq from the offense by cutting off all routes leading to him and the pistons gain the leverage.
Dude. Shaq couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his life depnded on it...LOL.
-
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh?
you pretend like kobe did it all himself that game, go back to my articles and it clearly shows that shaq got the lakers a three point play in the fourth and overtime play to make it even POSSIBLE for the kobe 3 a possibility.
Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...
when have i ever said that? it's more true for me to say you like kobe more than i like shaq, and it's even more fair for me to say that your love for kobe in relation to the lakers far exudes my admiration for shaq's time in la in realtion to the organization. it'd be one thing if i became a laker fan when shaq joined the club, but i was a laker fan when sam perkins and vlade divac were our big men. that's why i'm still tyring to see a day when the lakers when, i'm not out rooting for the spurs/mavericks/suns/ect. your argument is invalid here.
If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
yeah right we'll see, lol we'll see...
the very fact that you're still in kobe's corner after all his shenanigans tells me you'll still be in his corner when he's playing for the knicks or bucks or wherever he goes.
you know what i'll be nice too when that day comes and kobe is no longer on the lakers. because you do know it's possible to have a favorite player from a different team right ,lol? there's nothing sacreligious about it. in the 80's my favorite nba player was magic , then after he retired my favorite player became grand ma ma ... i mean larry johnson.... then shaqc....then one day in 96' my favorite player was on my favorite team....that shit was tight. now my favorite player plays on the heat....wish he still played on my favorite team. when shaq retires my favorite player will probably be carmelo anthony, maybe lamar odom that's my second and third favorite players as of right now.only one of them is a laker, but so what if he's not after next season i like the way they play, they remind me of how i played.
in football my favorite players don't play on the cowboys or the raiders, even though we got one of the best wr's and one of the best up and coming qb's and best defenses (combined). my favorite players play in different conferences on other teams MILES away from oakland and dallas. lol true story
my favorite baseball player never played for the dodgers or angels, infact he use to play for a division rival for the angels and was compared to the biggest villian in recent dodger history (barry bonds)....ken griffy jr. so what , does that make me any less of a dodger.angel fan
NIK quit being so childish
-
Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have a vintage Kobe series...After his amazing performance in Game 2, he only had 13 attempts in Game 3!!! If the Lakers were running under Kobe, NO WAY that happens..
shaq/or the other lakers for that matter weren't allowed to have a vintage lakers series....larry brown was one step ahead of everyone with his defense.....you can't say kobe wasn't heading the offense when everyone else had 4-5 shots and shaq had like what 10/11 in that same game 3.....you're giving shaq too much negative credit and the pistons not enough positive credit. face it kobe HAD the offense, and coudln't pull throug.
even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him
LMAO!
how is that funny when he was grabbing over or near 30 points in many of those games. situation determines behavior. notice that kobe's number dipped in the same games shaq's did as well. detroit defense right there. detroit put a dam on the passing lanes inside which eliminated shaq and malone down low, which forced the lakers to take wild out side shots....in particularly kobe. larry brown knew what he was doing, he knew the lakers couldn't win the series with kobe jacking up shots. eliminate shaq from the offense by cutting off all routes leading to him and the pistons gain the leverage.
Dude. Shaq couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his life depnded on it...LOL.
dude. dennis rodman couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his lfie depended on it....detroit had the golden game plan that year.
-
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh?
you pretend like kobe did it all himself that game, go back to my articles and it clearly shows that shaq got the lakers a three point play in the fourth and overtime play to make it even POSSIBLE for the kobe 3 a possibility.
Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...
when have i ever said that? it's more true for me to say you like kobe more than i like shaq, and it's even more fair for me to say that your love for kobe in relation to the lakers far exudes my admiration for shaq's time in la in realtion to the organization. it'd be one thing if i became a laker fan when shaq joined the club, but i was a laker fan when sam perkins and vlade divac were our big men. that's why i'm still tyring to see a day when the lakers when, i'm not out rooting for the spurs/mavericks/suns/ect. your argument is invalid here.
If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
yeah right we'll see, lol we'll see...
the very fact that you're still in kobe's corner after all his shenanigans tells me you'll still be in his corner when he's playing for the knicks or bucks or wherever he goes.
you know what i'll be nice too when that day comes and kobe is no longer on the lakers. because you do know it's possible to have a favorite player from a different team right ,lol? there's nothing sacreligious about it. in the 80's my favorite nba player was magic , then after he retired my favorite player became grand ma ma ... i mean larry johnson.... then shaqc....then one day in 96' my favorite player was on my favorite team....that shit was tight. now my favorite player plays on the heat....wish he still played on my favorite team. when shaq retires my favorite player will probably be carmelo anthony, maybe lamar odom that's my second and third favorite players as of right now.only one of them is a laker, but so what if he's not after next season i like the way they play, they remind me of how i played.
in football my favorite players don't play on the cowboys or the raiders, even though we got one of the best wr's and one of the best up and coming qb's and best defenses (combined). my favorite players play in different conferences on other teams MILES away from oakland and dallas. lol true story
my favorite baseball player never played for the dodgers or angels, infact he use to play for a division rival for the angels and was compared to the biggest villian in recent dodger history (barry bonds)....ken griffy jr. so what , does that make me any less of a dodger.angel fan
NIK quit being so childish
^^If Kobe wasn't on the Lakers, he wouldn't be my favorite player. Unlike you, people don't doubt my Laker fan status...That's all there is to it.
-
Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have a vintage Kobe series...After his amazing performance in Game 2, he only had 13 attempts in Game 3!!! If the Lakers were running under Kobe, NO WAY that happens..
shaq/or the other lakers for that matter weren't allowed to have a vintage lakers series....larry brown was one step ahead of everyone with his defense.....you can't say kobe wasn't heading the offense when everyone else had 4-5 shots and shaq had like what 10/11 in that same game 3.....you're giving shaq too much negative credit and the pistons not enough positive credit. face it kobe HAD the offense, and coudln't pull throug.
even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him
LMAO!
how is that funny when he was grabbing over or near 30 points in many of those games. situation determines behavior. notice that kobe's number dipped in the same games shaq's did as well. detroit defense right there. detroit put a dam on the passing lanes inside which eliminated shaq and malone down low, which forced the lakers to take wild out side shots....in particularly kobe. larry brown knew what he was doing, he knew the lakers couldn't win the series with kobe jacking up shots. eliminate shaq from the offense by cutting off all routes leading to him and the pistons gain the leverage.
Dude. Shaq couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his life depnded on it...LOL.
dude. dennis rodman couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his lfie depended on it....detroit had the golden game plan that year.
Shaq in his prime could... ;D
-
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
kobe shot one less shot than shaq....oooo wow, but still let's look at that game no one had the offense in that game, but what happened every other game when kobe shot almost twice as much as shaq, lol we lost big time
shaq had no control i don't know where you draw that from, he didn't touch the ball of even have possestion of the ball as long as kobe in that game. are you saying he did!? how could someone control the offense when they dont' have the ball or even touch it? lol it's not like he was calling plays, GARY PAYTON was,lol
-
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh?
you pretend like kobe did it all himself that game, go back to my articles and it clearly shows that shaq got the lakers a three point play in the fourth and overtime play to make it even POSSIBLE for the kobe 3 a possibility.
Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...
when have i ever said that? it's more true for me to say you like kobe more than i like shaq, and it's even more fair for me to say that your love for kobe in relation to the lakers far exudes my admiration for shaq's time in la in realtion to the organization. it'd be one thing if i became a laker fan when shaq joined the club, but i was a laker fan when sam perkins and vlade divac were our big men. that's why i'm still tyring to see a day when the lakers when, i'm not out rooting for the spurs/mavericks/suns/ect. your argument is invalid here.
If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
yeah right we'll see, lol we'll see...
the very fact that you're still in kobe's corner after all his shenanigans tells me you'll still be in his corner when he's playing for the knicks or bucks or wherever he goes.
you know what i'll be nice too when that day comes and kobe is no longer on the lakers. because you do know it's possible to have a favorite player from a different team right ,lol? there's nothing sacreligious about it. in the 80's my favorite nba player was magic , then after he retired my favorite player became grand ma ma ... i mean larry johnson.... then shaqc....then one day in 96' my favorite player was on my favorite team....that shit was tight. now my favorite player plays on the heat....wish he still played on my favorite team. when shaq retires my favorite player will probably be carmelo anthony, maybe lamar odom that's my second and third favorite players as of right now.only one of them is a laker, but so what if he's not after next season i like the way they play, they remind me of how i played.
in football my favorite players don't play on the cowboys or the raiders, even though we got one of the best wr's and one of the best up and coming qb's and best defenses (combined). my favorite players play in different conferences on other teams MILES away from oakland and dallas. lol true story
my favorite baseball player never played for the dodgers or angels, infact he use to play for a division rival for the angels and was compared to the biggest villian in recent dodger history (barry bonds)....ken griffy jr. so what , does that make me any less of a dodger.angel fan
NIK quit being so childish
^^If Kobe wasn't on the Lakers, he wouldn't be my favorite player. Unlike you, people don't doubt my Laker fan status...That's all there is to it.
like i said we'll see. we'll see, i got burnt copy of that doggystyle cd that says you'll post less about the lakers and still deep down inside still root for kobe. if you're still rooting for him now, you'll still be rooting for him when he's no longer a laker.
-
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
kobe shot one less shot than shaq....oooo wow, but still let's look at that game no one had the offense in that game, but what happened every other game when kobe shot almost twice as much as shaq, lol we lost big time
shaq had no control i don't know where you draw that from, he didn't touch the ball of even have possestion of the ball as long as kobe in that game. are you saying he did!? how could someone control the offense when they dont' have the ball or even touch it? lol it's not like he was calling plays, GARY PAYTON was,lol
^^Shaq was demanding the ball on every single opening (which he had trouble creating). He said he wouldn't defense or rebound if it went down differently...I'm starting to doubt you even watched the series.
-
Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have a vintage Kobe series...After his amazing performance in Game 2, he only had 13 attempts in Game 3!!! If the Lakers were running under Kobe, NO WAY that happens..
shaq/or the other lakers for that matter weren't allowed to have a vintage lakers series....larry brown was one step ahead of everyone with his defense.....you can't say kobe wasn't heading the offense when everyone else had 4-5 shots and shaq had like what 10/11 in that same game 3.....you're giving shaq too much negative credit and the pistons not enough positive credit. face it kobe HAD the offense, and coudln't pull throug.
even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him
LMAO!
how is that funny when he was grabbing over or near 30 points in many of those games. situation determines behavior. notice that kobe's number dipped in the same games shaq's did as well. detroit defense right there. detroit put a dam on the passing lanes inside which eliminated shaq and malone down low, which forced the lakers to take wild out side shots....in particularly kobe. larry brown knew what he was doing, he knew the lakers couldn't win the series with kobe jacking up shots. eliminate shaq from the offense by cutting off all routes leading to him and the pistons gain the leverage.
Dude. Shaq couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his life depnded on it...LOL.
dude. dennis rodman couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his lfie depended on it....detroit had the golden game plan that year.
Shaq in his prime could... ;D
i'm a big shaq fan but i dont' think he ever averaged 16 boards in a series
-
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh?
you pretend like kobe did it all himself that game, go back to my articles and it clearly shows that shaq got the lakers a three point play in the fourth and overtime play to make it even POSSIBLE for the kobe 3 a possibility.
Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...
when have i ever said that? it's more true for me to say you like kobe more than i like shaq, and it's even more fair for me to say that your love for kobe in relation to the lakers far exudes my admiration for shaq's time in la in realtion to the organization. it'd be one thing if i became a laker fan when shaq joined the club, but i was a laker fan when sam perkins and vlade divac were our big men. that's why i'm still tyring to see a day when the lakers when, i'm not out rooting for the spurs/mavericks/suns/ect. your argument is invalid here.
If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
yeah right we'll see, lol we'll see...
the very fact that you're still in kobe's corner after all his shenanigans tells me you'll still be in his corner when he's playing for the knicks or bucks or wherever he goes.
you know what i'll be nice too when that day comes and kobe is no longer on the lakers. because you do know it's possible to have a favorite player from a different team right ,lol? there's nothing sacreligious about it. in the 80's my favorite nba player was magic , then after he retired my favorite player became grand ma ma ... i mean larry johnson.... then shaqc....then one day in 96' my favorite player was on my favorite team....that shit was tight. now my favorite player plays on the heat....wish he still played on my favorite team. when shaq retires my favorite player will probably be carmelo anthony, maybe lamar odom that's my second and third favorite players as of right now.only one of them is a laker, but so what if he's not after next season i like the way they play, they remind me of how i played.
in football my favorite players don't play on the cowboys or the raiders, even though we got one of the best wr's and one of the best up and coming qb's and best defenses (combined). my favorite players play in different conferences on other teams MILES away from oakland and dallas. lol true story
my favorite baseball player never played for the dodgers or angels, infact he use to play for a division rival for the angels and was compared to the biggest villian in recent dodger history (barry bonds)....ken griffy jr. so what , does that make me any less of a dodger.angel fan
NIK quit being so childish
^^If Kobe wasn't on the Lakers, he wouldn't be my favorite player. Unlike you, people don't doubt my Laker fan status...That's all there is to it.
like i said we'll see. we'll see, i got burnt copy of that doggystyle cd that says you'll post less about the lakers and still deep down inside still root for kobe. if you're still rooting for him now, you'll still be rooting for him when he's no longer a laker.
That's why you're a joke, because you make these senseless assumptions. I loved the Lakers before Kobe and I will love them after...The only reason I give a shit about Kobe is because he is a L A K E R. You can't argue that, I was born into a family of Laker fans. Knowing myself, I will probably BOO Kobe when he comes to Staple Center if he switches teams. LMAO@your "burnt" Doggystyle CD. I want "Doggumentary"... :D
-
So basically after kobe gets traded were gonna stop having threads about kobe bryant cause nik won't like him anymore?? Perfect works for me
-
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
kobe shot one less shot than shaq....oooo wow, but still let's look at that game no one had the offense in that game, but what happened every other game when kobe shot almost twice as much as shaq, lol we lost big time
shaq had no control i don't know where you draw that from, he didn't touch the ball of even have possestion of the ball as long as kobe in that game. are you saying he did!? how could someone control the offense when they dont' have the ball or even touch it? lol it's not like he was calling plays, GARY PAYTON was,lol
^^Shaq was demanding the ball on every single opening (which he had trouble creating). He said he wouldn't defense or rebound if it went down differently...I'm starting to doubt you even watched the series.
of corse he was demanding the ball but he wasn't getting it because DETROITS DEFENSE WOULDN'T ALLOW AN ENTRY PASS. shaq's a big dude but he he's not bigger than the combined height and weight of ben wallace and rasheed wallace. plus it didn't help that all he had was a broken karl malone down low with him. don't you even see what you're saying,lol? did you even watch the series. shaq could only get the ball fast break or trick ally oop passes:
-
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh?
you pretend like kobe did it all himself that game, go back to my articles and it clearly shows that shaq got the lakers a three point play in the fourth and overtime play to make it even POSSIBLE for the kobe 3 a possibility.
Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...
when have i ever said that? it's more true for me to say you like kobe more than i like shaq, and it's even more fair for me to say that your love for kobe in relation to the lakers far exudes my admiration for shaq's time in la in realtion to the organization. it'd be one thing if i became a laker fan when shaq joined the club, but i was a laker fan when sam perkins and vlade divac were our big men. that's why i'm still tyring to see a day when the lakers when, i'm not out rooting for the spurs/mavericks/suns/ect. your argument is invalid here.
If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
yeah right we'll see, lol we'll see...
the very fact that you're still in kobe's corner after all his shenanigans tells me you'll still be in his corner when he's playing for the knicks or bucks or wherever he goes.
you know what i'll be nice too when that day comes and kobe is no longer on the lakers. because you do know it's possible to have a favorite player from a different team right ,lol? there's nothing sacreligious about it. in the 80's my favorite nba player was magic , then after he retired my favorite player became grand ma ma ... i mean larry johnson.... then shaqc....then one day in 96' my favorite player was on my favorite team....that shit was tight. now my favorite player plays on the heat....wish he still played on my favorite team. when shaq retires my favorite player will probably be carmelo anthony, maybe lamar odom that's my second and third favorite players as of right now.only one of them is a laker, but so what if he's not after next season i like the way they play, they remind me of how i played.
in football my favorite players don't play on the cowboys or the raiders, even though we got one of the best wr's and one of the best up and coming qb's and best defenses (combined). my favorite players play in different conferences on other teams MILES away from oakland and dallas. lol true story
my favorite baseball player never played for the dodgers or angels, infact he use to play for a division rival for the angels and was compared to the biggest villian in recent dodger history (barry bonds)....ken griffy jr. so what , does that make me any less of a dodger.angel fan
NIK quit being so childish
^^If Kobe wasn't on the Lakers, he wouldn't be my favorite player. Unlike you, people don't doubt my Laker fan status...That's all there is to it.
like i said we'll see. we'll see, i got burnt copy of that doggystyle cd that says you'll post less about the lakers and still deep down inside still root for kobe. if you're still rooting for him now, you'll still be rooting for him when he's no longer a laker.
That's why you're a joke, because you make these senseless assumptions. I loved the Lakers before Kobe and I will love them after...The only reason I give a shit about Kobe is because he is a L A K E R. You can't argue that, I was born into a family of Laker fans. Knowing myself, I will probably BOO Kobe when he comes to Staple Center if he switches teams. LMAO@your "burnt" Doggystyle CD. I want "Doggumentary"... :D
like i said....we'll see, we'll see.
-
Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have a vintage Kobe series...After his amazing performance in Game 2, he only had 13 attempts in Game 3!!! If the Lakers were running under Kobe, NO WAY that happens..
shaq/or the other lakers for that matter weren't allowed to have a vintage lakers series....larry brown was one step ahead of everyone with his defense.....you can't say kobe wasn't heading the offense when everyone else had 4-5 shots and shaq had like what 10/11 in that same game 3.....you're giving shaq too much negative credit and the pistons not enough positive credit. face it kobe HAD the offense, and coudln't pull throug.
even if he wasn't averaging 38 points and 16 rebounds.....he would have if the lakers were ABLE to get clear passing lanes to him
LMAO!
how is that funny when he was grabbing over or near 30 points in many of those games. situation determines behavior. notice that kobe's number dipped in the same games shaq's did as well. detroit defense right there. detroit put a dam on the passing lanes inside which eliminated shaq and malone down low, which forced the lakers to take wild out side shots....in particularly kobe. larry brown knew what he was doing, he knew the lakers couldn't win the series with kobe jacking up shots. eliminate shaq from the offense by cutting off all routes leading to him and the pistons gain the leverage.
Dude. Shaq couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his life depnded on it...LOL.
dude. dennis rodman couldn't average 16 rebounds in that series if his lfie depended on it....detroit had the golden game plan that year.
Shaq in his prime could... ;D
i'm a big shaq fan but i dont' think he ever averaged 16 boards in a series
LMAO! You don't remember 3peat Shaq, do you?
-
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh?
you pretend like kobe did it all himself that game, go back to my articles and it clearly shows that shaq got the lakers a three point play in the fourth and overtime play to make it even POSSIBLE for the kobe 3 a possibility.
Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...
when have i ever said that? it's more true for me to say you like kobe more than i like shaq, and it's even more fair for me to say that your love for kobe in relation to the lakers far exudes my admiration for shaq's time in la in realtion to the organization. it'd be one thing if i became a laker fan when shaq joined the club, but i was a laker fan when sam perkins and vlade divac were our big men. that's why i'm still tyring to see a day when the lakers when, i'm not out rooting for the spurs/mavericks/suns/ect. your argument is invalid here.
If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
yeah right we'll see, lol we'll see...
the very fact that you're still in kobe's corner after all his shenanigans tells me you'll still be in his corner when he's playing for the knicks or bucks or wherever he goes.
you know what i'll be nice too when that day comes and kobe is no longer on the lakers. because you do know it's possible to have a favorite player from a different team right ,lol? there's nothing sacreligious about it. in the 80's my favorite nba player was magic , then after he retired my favorite player became grand ma ma ... i mean larry johnson.... then shaqc....then one day in 96' my favorite player was on my favorite team....that shit was tight. now my favorite player plays on the heat....wish he still played on my favorite team. when shaq retires my favorite player will probably be carmelo anthony, maybe lamar odom that's my second and third favorite players as of right now.only one of them is a laker, but so what if he's not after next season i like the way they play, they remind me of how i played.
in football my favorite players don't play on the cowboys or the raiders, even though we got one of the best wr's and one of the best up and coming qb's and best defenses (combined). my favorite players play in different conferences on other teams MILES away from oakland and dallas. lol true story
my favorite baseball player never played for the dodgers or angels, infact he use to play for a division rival for the angels and was compared to the biggest villian in recent dodger history (barry bonds)....ken griffy jr. so what , does that make me any less of a dodger.angel fan
NIK quit being so childish
^^If Kobe wasn't on the Lakers, he wouldn't be my favorite player. Unlike you, people don't doubt my Laker fan status...That's all there is to it.
like i said we'll see. we'll see, i got burnt copy of that doggystyle cd that says you'll post less about the lakers and still deep down inside still root for kobe. if you're still rooting for him now, you'll still be rooting for him when he's no longer a laker.
That's why you're a joke, because you make these senseless assumptions. I loved the Lakers before Kobe and I will love them after...The only reason I give a shit about Kobe is because he is a L A K E R. You can't argue that, I was born into a family of Laker fans. Knowing myself, I will probably BOO Kobe when he comes to Staple Center if he switches teams. LMAO@your "burnt" Doggystyle CD. I want "Doggumentary"... :D
like i said....we'll see, we'll see.
No we wont, cuz Kobe's not getting traded...
-
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
kobe shot one less shot than shaq....oooo wow, but still let's look at that game no one had the offense in that game, but what happened every other game when kobe shot almost twice as much as shaq, lol we lost big time
shaq had no control i don't know where you draw that from, he didn't touch the ball of even have possestion of the ball as long as kobe in that game. are you saying he did!? how could someone control the offense when they dont' have the ball or even touch it? lol it's not like he was calling plays, GARY PAYTON was,lol
^^Shaq was demanding the ball on every single opening (which he had trouble creating). He said he wouldn't defense or rebound if it went down differently...I'm starting to doubt you even watched the series.
of corse he was demanding the ball but he wasn't getting it because DETROITS DEFENSE WOULDN'T ALLOW AN ENTRY PASS. shaq's a big dude but he he's not bigger than the combined height and weight of ben wallace and rasheed wallace. plus it didn't help that all he had was a broken karl malone down low with him. don't you even see what you're saying,lol? did you even watch the series. shaq could only get the ball fast break or trick ally oop passes:
EXACTLY! Getting a post-entry pass depends on the post players ability to get into position, and Shaq was WAY too out-of-shape to dominate the opposition and muscle through the defense like he used to...Now you're getting it, Jake...PeACe
-
Kobe is as good as gone as far as im concerned. Hopefully we see him this sunday on espn ripping the lakers a new 1 on the sunday conversation. That would be nice
-
Kobe is as good as gone as far as im concerned. Hopefully we see him this sunday on espn ripping the lakers a new 1 on the sunday conversation. That would be nice
Good thing you're not concerned...Like everyone within the Laker organization keeps insisting, Kobe is going nowhere.
-
^^^ Do u want to put a $100 wager on it. Make things a lil more interesting for me
-
^^^ Do u want to put a $100 wager on it. Make things a lil more interesting for me
Yes. If you can man up to your bet, I wanna put 100 bux on Kobe being on the Laker roster opening game. How shall we do this?
-
aight done.
-
How you wanna do this? How can I be sure that you wont bitch out, like PLANT?
-
Tell Nima to orchastrate this. If the loser doesn't pay up your account gets banned.
-
Tell Nima to orchastrate this. If the loser doesn't pay up your account gets banned.
Like he really cares if he gets banned...LOL. We should put a down payment through someone. Whoever wins, gets the money back AND the other persons money. I can't trust people through the internet after the last bet I made on here...
-
$100 really isnt shit to me. however u feel comfortable doing this is fine with me
-
You gunna be in the LA area any time soon?
-
aug 4th ill be in moorpark
-
im a man i have no problem paying another man 100 if i loose a bet. also please dont compare me to some canadian that calls himself plant. if i loose u'll get ur $$$$
-
Alright, deal. 8)
-
im prolly gonna buy my lil cousin a chicago bulls kobe bryant jersey when i win
-
lol
-
im prolly gonna buy my lil cousin a chicago bulls kobe bryant jersey when i win
I'll buy the Warriors when I win. 8)
-
That's why the Lakers only won a game when KOBE had an amazing performance, huh?
you pretend like kobe did it all himself that game, go back to my articles and it clearly shows that shaq got the lakers a three point play in the fourth and overtime play to make it even POSSIBLE for the kobe 3 a possibility.
Dude, you already admitted that your love for Shaq goes beyond your love for the Lakers...
when have i ever said that? it's more true for me to say you like kobe more than i like shaq, and it's even more fair for me to say that your love for kobe in relation to the lakers far exudes my admiration for shaq's time in la in realtion to the organization. it'd be one thing if i became a laker fan when shaq joined the club, but i was a laker fan when sam perkins and vlade divac were our big men. that's why i'm still tyring to see a day when the lakers when, i'm not out rooting for the spurs/mavericks/suns/ect. your argument is invalid here.
If Kobe left the Lakers, I wouldn't give a SHIT about him. In fact, I would hope he fails wherever he went...That's the difference between me, a real Laker fan, and you, a Shaq fan...People can see this, bro...PeACe
yeah right we'll see, lol we'll see...
the very fact that you're still in kobe's corner after all his shenanigans tells me you'll still be in his corner when he's playing for the knicks or bucks or wherever he goes.
you know what i'll be nice too when that day comes and kobe is no longer on the lakers. because you do know it's possible to have a favorite player from a different team right ,lol? there's nothing sacreligious about it. in the 80's my favorite nba player was magic , then after he retired my favorite player became grand ma ma ... i mean larry johnson.... then shaqc....then one day in 96' my favorite player was on my favorite team....that shit was tight. now my favorite player plays on the heat....wish he still played on my favorite team. when shaq retires my favorite player will probably be carmelo anthony, maybe lamar odom that's my second and third favorite players as of right now.only one of them is a laker, but so what if he's not after next season i like the way they play, they remind me of how i played.
in football my favorite players don't play on the cowboys or the raiders, even though we got one of the best wr's and one of the best up and coming qb's and best defenses (combined). my favorite players play in different conferences on other teams MILES away from oakland and dallas. lol true story
my favorite baseball player never played for the dodgers or angels, infact he use to play for a division rival for the angels and was compared to the biggest villian in recent dodger history (barry bonds)....ken griffy jr. so what , does that make me any less of a dodger.angel fan
NIK quit being so childish
^^If Kobe wasn't on the Lakers, he wouldn't be my favorite player. Unlike you, people don't doubt my Laker fan status...That's all there is to it.
like i said we'll see. we'll see, i got burnt copy of that doggystyle cd that says you'll post less about the lakers and still deep down inside still root for kobe. if you're still rooting for him now, you'll still be rooting for him when he's no longer a laker.
That's why you're a joke, because you make these senseless assumptions. I loved the Lakers before Kobe and I will love them after...The only reason I give a shit about Kobe is because he is a L A K E R. You can't argue that, I was born into a family of Laker fans. Knowing myself, I will probably BOO Kobe when he comes to Staple Center if he switches teams. LMAO@your "burnt" Doggystyle CD. I want "Doggumentary"... :D
like i said....we'll see, we'll see.
No we wont, cuz Kobe's not getting traded...
oh we'll see we'll see
-
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
kobe shot one less shot than shaq....oooo wow, but still let's look at that game no one had the offense in that game, but what happened every other game when kobe shot almost twice as much as shaq, lol we lost big time
shaq had no control i don't know where you draw that from, he didn't touch the ball of even have possestion of the ball as long as kobe in that game. are you saying he did!? how could someone control the offense when they dont' have the ball or even touch it? lol it's not like he was calling plays, GARY PAYTON was,lol
^^Shaq was demanding the ball on every single opening (which he had trouble creating). He said he wouldn't defense or rebound if it went down differently...I'm starting to doubt you even watched the series.
of corse he was demanding the ball but he wasn't getting it because DETROITS DEFENSE WOULDN'T ALLOW AN ENTRY PASS. shaq's a big dude but he he's not bigger than the combined height and weight of ben wallace and rasheed wallace. plus it didn't help that all he had was a broken karl malone down low with him. don't you even see what you're saying,lol? did you even watch the series. shaq could only get the ball fast break or trick ally oop passes:
EXACTLY! Getting a post-entry pass depends on the post players ability to get into position, and Shaq was WAY too out-of-shape to dominate the opposition and muscle through the defense like he used to...Now you're getting it, Jake...PeACe
how is shaq going to get a pass when Prince and billips are blocking the passing lanes for payton and bryant, it's a two way street.
-
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
kobe shot one less shot than shaq....oooo wow, but still let's look at that game no one had the offense in that game, but what happened every other game when kobe shot almost twice as much as shaq, lol we lost big time
shaq had no control i don't know where you draw that from, he didn't touch the ball of even have possestion of the ball as long as kobe in that game. are you saying he did!? how could someone control the offense when they dont' have the ball or even touch it? lol it's not like he was calling plays, GARY PAYTON was,lol
^^Shaq was demanding the ball on every single opening (which he had trouble creating). He said he wouldn't defense or rebound if it went down differently...I'm starting to doubt you even watched the series.
of corse he was demanding the ball but he wasn't getting it because DETROITS DEFENSE WOULDN'T ALLOW AN ENTRY PASS. shaq's a big dude but he he's not bigger than the combined height and weight of ben wallace and rasheed wallace. plus it didn't help that all he had was a broken karl malone down low with him. don't you even see what you're saying,lol? did you even watch the series. shaq could only get the ball fast break or trick ally oop passes:
EXACTLY! Getting a post-entry pass depends on the post players ability to get into position, and Shaq was WAY too out-of-shape to dominate the opposition and muscle through the defense like he used to...Now you're getting it, Jake...PeACe
how is shaq going to get a pass when Prince and billips are blocking the passing lanes for payton and bryant, it's a two way street.
Wow...If you knew the first thing about basketball, you'd understand that it's the centers role to get in position to recieve a post entry pass.. Passing lanes are not the problem, it's the spacing between the big and the basket, and his ability to deny frontal position of the defender...Shaq was not his old self...This is why people said Ben Wallace shutdown/outperformed Shaq in 2004...PeACe
-
Yes...Kobe had the offense. ::) That's why he took less attempts than Shaq a game after his remarkable performance to save the Lakers, right? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, SHAQ HAD CONTROL. You obviously didn't read Phil Jackson's "Last Season"...I don't even have to ask you, because it's self-evident based on the shit you're saying. Shaq was incapable of finding openings and dominating the center. He shot less, yet the offense was running through him. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, JAKE.
kobe shot one less shot than shaq....oooo wow, but still let's look at that game no one had the offense in that game, but what happened every other game when kobe shot almost twice as much as shaq, lol we lost big time
shaq had no control i don't know where you draw that from, he didn't touch the ball of even have possestion of the ball as long as kobe in that game. are you saying he did!? how could someone control the offense when they dont' have the ball or even touch it? lol it's not like he was calling plays, GARY PAYTON was,lol
^^Shaq was demanding the ball on every single opening (which he had trouble creating). He said he wouldn't defense or rebound if it went down differently...I'm starting to doubt you even watched the series.
of corse he was demanding the ball but he wasn't getting it because DETROITS DEFENSE WOULDN'T ALLOW AN ENTRY PASS. shaq's a big dude but he he's not bigger than the combined height and weight of ben wallace and rasheed wallace. plus it didn't help that all he had was a broken karl malone down low with him. don't you even see what you're saying,lol? did you even watch the series. shaq could only get the ball fast break or trick ally oop passes:
EXACTLY! Getting a post-entry pass depends on the post players ability to get into position, and Shaq was WAY too out-of-shape to dominate the opposition and muscle through the defense like he used to...Now you're getting it, Jake...PeACe
how is shaq going to get a pass when Prince and billips are blocking the passing lanes for payton and bryant, it's a two way street.
Wow...If you knew the first thing about basketball, you'd understand that it's the centers role to get in position to recieve a post entry pass.. Passing lanes are not the problem, it's the spacing between the big and the basket, and his ability to deny frontal position of the defender...Shaq was not his old self...This is why people said Ben Wallace shutdown/outperformed Shaq in 2004...PeACe
like i said even when shaq was open he couldn't receive a pass because prince, billips, or hamilton would either steal the ball or change the direction of the pass for payton , fisher, and bryant.
-
^And if Shaq was in his prime, he would muscle the opposition, and give Payton and Kobe the luxury of making a textbook bounce-pass or over the top post entry pass...It's not that hard, Jake. The problem was Shaq WAS NOT his old self. He COULDN'T dominate like he once was capable...PeACe
-
^And if Shaq was in his prime, he would muscle the opposition, and give Payton and Kobe the luxury of making a textbook bounce-pass or over the top post entry pass...It's not that hard, Jake. The problem was Shaq WAS NOT his old self. He COULDN'T dominate like he once was capable...PeACe
if they went back in time and cloned shaq and put another one of him on the laker team and he was all by himself, prince and billips and hamilton were still blocking the ENTRY pass, not the receiver pass but the entry.
-
Dude..It is not difficult to dribble around the perimeter and find an entry pass if your big is positioned for it..Any doofus who's played basketball knows this.
-
Dude..It is not difficult to dribble around the perimeter and find an entry pass if your big is positioned for it..Any doofus who's played basketball knows this.
how are kobe and payton suppose to dribble around the perimeter when hamilton, billips and prince have them in check,lol. you didn't watch the game huh? they could penitrate and even if they threw out a pass from the perimeter they'd get it stolen before it'd be anywhere near shaq. open or not, lol, shaq's not stretch armstrong, dhalsam, or mr. fantastic from the fantastic four .your argument here is stale and boring, please try harder to discredit shaq okay?
-
^^Or why don't you try harder to ride Shaq? Kobe 2004 >>>> Shaq 2004, no way around it. Funny how you always claim it was Kobe who fucked up...At least I admit, Kobe had a bad shooting series. Can you admit Shaq was nowhere close to his old self? I doubt it...To claim Shaq didn't play like a beast for anything other than the fact that he was out of shape and couldn't dominate the center like prime Shaq is absurd. LOL. AND Shaq had more trouble with turnovers than Kobe in that series, so to claim Kobe was getting the ball stolen when tryna get it to Shaq is just hilarious...PeACe
-
fat of the matter is this , shaq stepped his game up from where it was when it counted most, can you say the same for kobe? no.
-
fat of the matter is this , shaq stepped his game up from where it was when it counted most, can you say the same for kobe? no.
Shaq was known as the opposite of clutch, so your claims are insane. When the game always mattered the most, you'd catch Shaq sitting on the bench, either to avoid shooting free-throws, or because of foul trouble...Kobe ALWAYS bailed him out. He was already considered the best player in the league by 2002, Shaq himself claimed Kobe was the "best in the world" by the 2nd championship! You KNOW Kobe 2004 > Shaq 2004, so why argue? You love Shaq a lil too much... :-\
-
fat of the matter is this , shaq stepped his game up from where it was when it counted most, can you say the same for kobe? no.
Shaq was known as the opposite of clutch, so your claims are insane. When the game always mattered the most, you'd catch Shaq sitting on the bench, either to avoid shooting free-throws, or because of foul trouble...Kobe ALWAYS bailed him out. He was already considered the best player in the league by 2002, Shaq himself claimed Kobe was the "best in the world" by the 2nd championship! You KNOW Kobe 2004 > Shaq 2004, so why argue? You love Shaq a lil too much... :-\
fact of the matter was that shaq stepped up his game when it counted most, kobe did not. remember kobe doesn't hit that 3 for the win if shaq doesn't get that the lakers close .
-
fat of the matter is this , shaq stepped his game up from where it was when it counted most, can you say the same for kobe? no.
Shaq was known as the opposite of clutch, so your claims are insane. When the game always mattered the most, you'd catch Shaq sitting on the bench, either to avoid shooting free-throws, or because of foul trouble...Kobe ALWAYS bailed him out. He was already considered the best player in the league by 2002, Shaq himself claimed Kobe was the "best in the world" by the 2nd championship! You KNOW Kobe 2004 > Shaq 2004, so why argue? You love Shaq a lil too much... :-\
fact of the matter was that shaq stepped up his game when it counted most, kobe did not. remember kobe doesn't hit that 3 for the win if shaq doesn't get that the lakers close .
Under 10 rebounds in 3 out of 5 Final games is very sad to be considered "stepping it up" for Shaq...
-
fact of the matter is shaq stepped up his game when it counted most.
-
I can't believe you guys are still arguing with this idiot. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about and is speaking out of envy. Shaq championships since he left LA=1, Kobe's championships since Shaq left=0. End of story.
-
Kobe >>>>>>Shaq
When both players are long gone and retired Kobe will be considered the better player, end of story
-
I can't believe you guys are still arguing with this idiot. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about and is speaking out of envy. Shaq championships since he left LA=1, Kobe's championships since Shaq left=0. End of story.
Was Shaq even the leader of that Heat team, let alone a main option when they won the championship? LMAO. Dont EVER call someone an idiot, Phillbitch.
-
fact of the matter is shaq stepped up his game when it counted most.
He was still outplayed in many peoples eyes. So if he stepped up, and he was still outplayed, shit...well, you do the math.
-
27 points and 10 rebounds while shooting over 50% from the field is now considered a bad series ladies and gentlemen.
-
EVen if Shaq didn't play up to his usual standards in that series, he was a hell of a lot more productive than Kobe, and the numbers don't lie so why is this even being debated?
Kobe sucked in the finals, shot horribly, took MANY off balance shitty shots (even NIK will admit thism but only because Kobe said it himself). Shaq, while not as dominant as he had been in the past, was still GREAT, scoring almost everytime he touched the ball. NOone else on the LAkers showed up.
-
Shaq was GREAT in that series? Playing virtually no defense, tiring out so you can't play a full game, and only grabing double digit rebounds in 2 out of 5 games is GREAT? SHAQ WAS CONSIDERED SHUT DOWN IN THAT SERIES! The whole team had a bad series, but the offense was running thorugh Shaq! SHAQ PUT HIMSELF AHEAD OF THE TEAM, A TEAM THAT HAD 4 HALL-OF-FAMERS ON IT... :-X
-
Shaq was GREAT in that series? Playing virtually no defense, tiring out so you can't play a full game, and only grabing double digit rebounds in 2 out of 5 games is GREAT? SHAQ WAS CONSIDERED SHUT DOWN IN THAT SERIES! The whole team had a bad series, but the offense was running thorugh Shaq! SHAQ PUT HIMSELF AHEAD OF THE TEAM, A TEAM THAT HAD 4 HALL-OF-FAMERS ON IT... :-X
lol quit being a hater.
-
Shaq was GREAT in that series? Playing virtually no defense, tiring out so you can't play a full game, and only grabing double digit rebounds in 2 out of 5 games is GREAT? SHAQ WAS CONSIDERED SHUT DOWN IN THAT SERIES! The whole team had a bad series, but the offense was running thorugh Shaq! SHAQ PUT HIMSELF AHEAD OF THE TEAM, A TEAM THAT HAD 4 HALL-OF-FAMERS ON IT... :-X
lol quit being a hater.
lol quit being a groupie.
-
Shaq was GREAT in that series? Playing virtually no defense, tiring out so you can't play a full game, and only grabing double digit rebounds in 2 out of 5 games is GREAT? SHAQ WAS CONSIDERED SHUT DOWN IN THAT SERIES! The whole team had a bad series, but the offense was running thorugh Shaq! SHAQ PUT HIMSELF AHEAD OF THE TEAM, A TEAM THAT HAD 4 HALL-OF-FAMERS ON IT... :-X
lol quit being a hater.
lol quit being a groupie.
http://www.youtube.com/v/8v9yUVgrmPY