West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: eS El Duque on December 22, 2007, 08:51:19 AM
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In the NFL, the debate surrounding the Most Valuable Player award is framed by a remarkably homogeneous community of dudes.
Within this community, men fall into two camps: those who wish they had Tom Brady's life, and those who wish they had Tony Romo's life. That's really the only obvious split. And everyone can agree that if they had to stay old and married, they'd like to be Brett Favre.
Thus it's not really surprising that the current NFL MVP discussion seems to focus on those three quarterbacks.
The coverage of Favre, in particular, has spun wildly out of control. It's not sports anymore, it's just thinly-veiled erotica. In fact, American sports reporters have really created an entirely new multimedia genre over the past four months: Favrotica. In case you haven't heard, he's still a gunslinger and a riverboat gambler and he's like a little kid out there. But now he's smart.
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It might not seem like such a bright idea to give a little kid a gun and put him in a boat, but whatever. Brett somehow makes it all work. He's that awesome.
Well, all the fawning over Brady, Romo and Favre has obscured the MVP credentials of Randy Moss, the player who's actually had the most dramatic impact on his team.
How dramatic? Last year, New England averaged 212.5 passing yards per game, 24.1 points per game, and they had a red zone TD rate of 60 percent. This season it's 298.6 passing yards, 37.4 points, and they score a touchdown on 69.2 percent of their red zone possessions.
If you think improved quarterback play is the primary reason the Pats offense has made the jump from "great" to "historically great," then you should probably give Tom Brady the MVP. But almost no one really thinks that.
Moss leads the NFL in receiving yardage (1,343) and receiving touchdowns (19), and he unofficially leads the league in beating triple-coverage for long scores. He's a generational talent, and we'd all somehow forgotten this fact during 2007 fantasy drafts – no fewer than 10 wide receivers were taken ahead of him.
That isn't likely to happen again in 2008.
Here are three more things you may have forgotten about the guy who should be the NFL's MVP, but won't be:
1) Moss was supposed to go to Green Bay.
"We could have gotten him for less money than New England did," Favre said back in May. "He wanted to play in Green Bay for the amount of money we could have paid him. It's well worth the risk."
How phenomenal would the Packers be if Favre were throwing to Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and Randy Moss? They're 12-2 as it is. Green Bay's offensive statistics would look something like those New England has produced. SI's Sportsman of the Year issue would have been so Favrotic they'd have given it a centerfold and an opaque wrapper.
2) Not only was Moss reportedly injured during the preseason, there were actually rumors that the Patriots were going to cut him.
Don't believe it? Here's a link. To his credit, the writer was obviously not convinced that the rumors were valid. But they were definitely out there, and Moss sank a little further in fantasy drafts because of them. Moss' average draft position in Yahoo! leagues was 35.6, basically the middle of Round 4.
So far he's outscored the receiver with the highest ADP (Steve Smith) by 126 fantasy points.
3) Moss is not actually under contract with the Patriots in 2008, at least not yet.
If the best receiver in the NFL isn't in New England next year, then Brady isn't worth considering in the first round of fantasy drafts. If Moss does return, Brady will rarely fall beyond the third overall pick. Moss is really the only WR who will deserve serious first-round consideration in '08.
A few other fun facts about Randy Moss: it's been three years since he's fumbled; his best fantasy season was actually 2003, when he had 111 receptions, 1,632 yards and 17 TD; he's already fifth all-time on the career receiving TD list (120) and 15th in career receiving yardage (12,043).
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Take away Moss and Light and Brady wouldn't even have made the pro bowl this year. But he's a QB and everyone likes him, plus the numbers are there so he's going to get it. He's never gotten it before. He's been on 3 Superbowl teams. So they have to give it to him. Given the situation I think any number of QBs could have had similar numbers. You can give anyone from Roethlisberger to Warner to Schaub that much time in the pocket with a WR that can catch poorly thrown pop flies over two DBs and a slot guy that always gets wide open right infront of them and they'll have 40 something TDs too if their coach chose to run up the score on bad teams with pass plays only. You really don't have to be a great QB to play in the situation Brady has played in this year. How many times were te chips really down and Brady had to make a big play. The Pats have been behind a couple times yeah, but in Indy, Indy's D couldn't go 4 quarters. They gave away some big plays at the end. In Philly, Philly threw the ball away at the end. In Baltimore some very bad calls and coaching decisions saved the Pats. Every other game there was no chance of them losing or even needing a QB to win.
Randy Moss MVP. With a lot of help from bad DBs not knowing how to swat down flutter balls.
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Randy Moss is a fuckin beast but I don't see him taking the MVP, that would be dope though
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Moss deserves it. Brady will get it.
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i say the MVP should go to jericho cotchery
but it'll probably go to cindy brady
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i say the MVP should go to jericho cotchery
LOL
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its going to the guy that gets moss the ball...brady is def. the best qb in the nfl. and if your going to say that if moss wasnt on the team he would be wack, then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
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Excellent article. Where did you get it from and who wrote it?
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
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i say the MVP should go to jericho cotchery
LOL
jericho's the best lol :)
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i say the MVP should go to jericho cotchery
LOL
jericho's the best lol :)
LMAO!
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I hate the Patriots but Tom Brady should get MVP hands down
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I hate the Patriots but Tom Brady should get MVP hands down
its all Randy Moss
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
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brady = system qb
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Hell yea fam........
after all da bullshit in his career actually this year we can argue that fasho.......
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The difference between the Patriots being a contender and the Pats being possibly the greatest team ever is Randy Moss. I say Randy Moss is the MVP, they've always had Brady, but Moss is the difference maker.
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i wouldn't have a problem with giving it to moss.
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
controlling both sides wins every team their superbowl. brady still deserves mvp though. i think it's safe to say that he has the passing td record (not to jnyx the guy), but how can you break a record like that and not get mvp? i mean i could see if LT played better than he did last year and took it, but no else comes close to brady this year. also, let me ask you guys...if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
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if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
very true
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
controlling both sides wins every team their superbowl. brady still deserves mvp though. i think it's safe to say that he has the passing td record (not to jnyx the guy), but how can you break a record like that and not get mvp? i mean i could see if LT played better than he did last year and took it, but no else comes close to brady this year. also, let me ask you guys...if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
I never said Moss. I said Light. The O-line is the best O-line I've ever seen. No one Moss played with before had as much time to throw, giving Moss as much time to get open and to get down field. Take away the strong protection on the blind side and both Moss and Brady look average. Indy did it. Philly did it. and Baltimore did it. They got past Light and then they shut down the offense. Unforunately bad defense at the end and bonehead offense at bad times made all those teams lose. The NE offense was not the reason any of those wins occurred.
I think he'll win it. I just judge value on other merits. I really do believe that if Cassel played all season they'd still win their division and still have a first rnd bye. Now they may not have beaten the Colts, but they might have even with Cassel. I do not think the Colts would be above Jacksonville if Sorgi payed all season.
My pick for MVP a while back was Favre, but that may have been premature. In the end I don't believe in the award. It's a stupid award that recognizes individual effort in a very team oriented game. QBs get too much credit and too much blame. They are great when the team around them makes plays and terrible when the team around them doesn't. Very lttle to do with them. No one player can really turn around a team just by being on the field. Just because one player gets credit doesn't mean he should get it.
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lol @ some people
The QB is the most important position in football and Tom Brady is having the best season for a quarterback ever AND taking his team to an undefeated record. He's winning unanimously, book it.
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
controlling both sides wins every team their superbowl. brady still deserves mvp though. i think it's safe to say that he has the passing td record (not to jnyx the guy), but how can you break a record like that and not get mvp? i mean i could see if LT played better than he did last year and took it, but no else comes close to brady this year. also, let me ask you guys...if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
I never said Moss. I said Light. The O-line is the best O-line I've ever seen. No one Moss played with before had as much time to throw, giving Moss as much time to get open and to get down field. Take away the strong protection on the blind side and both Moss and Brady look average. Indy did it. Philly did it. and Baltimore did it. They got past Light and then they shut down the offense. Unforunately bad defense at the end and bonehead offense at bad times made all those teams lose. The NE offense was not the reason any of those wins occurred.
I think he'll win it. I just judge value on other merits. I really do believe that if Cassel played all season they'd still win their division and still have a first rnd bye. Now they may not have beaten the Colts, but they might have even with Cassel. I do not think the Colts would be above Jacksonville if Sorgi payed all season.
My pick for MVP a while back was Favre, but that may have been premature. In the end I don't believe in the award. It's a stupid award that recognizes individual effort in a very team oriented game. QBs get too much credit and too much blame. They are great when the team around them makes plays and terrible when the team around them doesn't. Very lttle to do with them. No one player can really turn around a team just by being on the field. Just because one player gets credit doesn't mean he should get it.
i get what your saying, but one thing is confusing me GREATLY...are you trying to say that the MVP of the national football league should go to Matt Light?
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
controlling both sides wins every team their superbowl. brady still deserves mvp though. i think it's safe to say that he has the passing td record (not to jnyx the guy), but how can you break a record like that and not get mvp? i mean i could see if LT played better than he did last year and took it, but no else comes close to brady this year. also, let me ask you guys...if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
I never said Moss. I said Light. The O-line is the best O-line I've ever seen. No one Moss played with before had as much time to throw, giving Moss as much time to get open and to get down field. Take away the strong protection on the blind side and both Moss and Brady look average. Indy did it. Philly did it. and Baltimore did it. They got past Light and then they shut down the offense. Unforunately bad defense at the end and bonehead offense at bad times made all those teams lose. The NE offense was not the reason any of those wins occurred.
I think he'll win it. I just judge value on other merits. I really do believe that if Cassel played all season they'd still win their division and still have a first rnd bye. Now they may not have beaten the Colts, but they might have even with Cassel. I do not think the Colts would be above Jacksonville if Sorgi payed all season.
My pick for MVP a while back was Favre, but that may have been premature. In the end I don't believe in the award. It's a stupid award that recognizes individual effort in a very team oriented game. QBs get too much credit and too much blame. They are great when the team around them makes plays and terrible when the team around them doesn't. Very lttle to do with them. No one player can really turn around a team just by being on the field. Just because one player gets credit doesn't mean he should get it.
i get what your saying, but one thing is confusing me GREATLY...are you trying to say that the MVP of the national football league should go to Matt Light?
No, I said his performance on the blind side is as big if not bigger reason for the big pass game than Brady or Moss. No one should be MVP ever. It's never judged faitly. AP gets all this credit for huge numbers as a rookie in Minn, but the other guy gets big plays and big numbers too, and the blockers get no credit. The play calling and a practosing never even enters the equation. You never know just how valuable a player is based on numbers or performance in the NFL.
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Why wasn't Moss playing like this with the Raiders?
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Why wasn't Moss playing like this with the Raiders?
The line couldn't hold up long enough for such greats like Aaron Brooks, and Kerry Collins and Andrew Walter to get Moss the ball.
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The line couldn't hold up long enough for such greats like Aaron Brooks, and Kerry Collins and Andrew Walter to get Moss the ball.
LMAO
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Why wasn't Moss playing like this with the Raiders?
The line couldn't hold up long enough for such greats like Aaron Brooks, and Kerry Collins and Andrew Walter to get Moss the ball.
Two words; Drew Bledsoe. He came in to Buffalo with a decent O-line and threw 4400 yars, 24 TDs with an offense that was not top 10 and the team goes 8-8 losing some close ones. The next year the O-line sucks, I was a huge Bills fan and saw every game, and Drew throws 2800 yards and 11 TDs with a 6-10 season. Scrambling QBs can do okay with bad o-lines, and Marino and Manning could always let the ball go quickly but I'd like to see bad o-line on a Superbowl team. Even the Ravens could move the cahis and kill the clock.
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
controlling both sides wins every team their superbowl. brady still deserves mvp though. i think it's safe to say that he has the passing td record (not to jnyx the guy), but how can you break a record like that and not get mvp? i mean i could see if LT played better than he did last year and took it, but no else comes close to brady this year. also, let me ask you guys...if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
I never said Moss. I said Light. The O-line is the best O-line I've ever seen. No one Moss played with before had as much time to throw, giving Moss as much time to get open and to get down field. Take away the strong protection on the blind side and both Moss and Brady look average. Indy did it. Philly did it. and Baltimore did it. They got past Light and then they shut down the offense. Unforunately bad defense at the end and bonehead offense at bad times made all those teams lose. The NE offense was not the reason any of those wins occurred.
I think he'll win it. I just judge value on other merits. I really do believe that if Cassel played all season they'd still win their division and still have a first rnd bye. Now they may not have beaten the Colts, but they might have even with Cassel. I do not think the Colts would be above Jacksonville if Sorgi payed all season.
My pick for MVP a while back was Favre, but that may have been premature. In the end I don't believe in the award. It's a stupid award that recognizes individual effort in a very team oriented game. QBs get too much credit and too much blame. They are great when the team around them makes plays and terrible when the team around them doesn't. Very lttle to do with them. No one player can really turn around a team just by being on the field. Just because one player gets credit doesn't mean he should get it.
i get what your saying, but one thing is confusing me GREATLY...are you trying to say that the MVP of the national football league should go to Matt Light?
No, I said his performance on the blind side is as big if not bigger reason for the big pass game than Brady or Moss. No one should be MVP ever. It's never judged faitly. AP gets all this credit for huge numbers as a rookie in Minn, but the other guy gets big plays and big numbers too, and the blockers get no credit. The play calling and a practosing never even enters the equation. You never know just how valuable a player is based on numbers or performance in the NFL.
ohh, i see what your saying and that makes alot of sense actually lol. but since there is an mvp, and it will go to a QB, RB, or WR, it will go to brady :P
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
controlling both sides wins every team their superbowl. brady still deserves mvp though. i think it's safe to say that he has the passing td record (not to jnyx the guy), but how can you break a record like that and not get mvp? i mean i could see if LT played better than he did last year and took it, but no else comes close to brady this year. also, let me ask you guys...if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
I never said Moss. I said Light. The O-line is the best O-line I've ever seen. No one Moss played with before had as much time to throw, giving Moss as much time to get open and to get down field. Take away the strong protection on the blind side and both Moss and Brady look average. Indy did it. Philly did it. and Baltimore did it. They got past Light and then they shut down the offense. Unforunately bad defense at the end and bonehead offense at bad times made all those teams lose. The NE offense was not the reason any of those wins occurred.
I think he'll win it. I just judge value on other merits. I really do believe that if Cassel played all season they'd still win their division and still have a first rnd bye. Now they may not have beaten the Colts, but they might have even with Cassel. I do not think the Colts would be above Jacksonville if Sorgi payed all season.
My pick for MVP a while back was Favre, but that may have been premature. In the end I don't believe in the award. It's a stupid award that recognizes individual effort in a very team oriented game. QBs get too much credit and too much blame. They are great when the team around them makes plays and terrible when the team around them doesn't. Very lttle to do with them. No one player can really turn around a team just by being on the field. Just because one player gets credit doesn't mean he should get it.
i get what your saying, but one thing is confusing me GREATLY...are you trying to say that the MVP of the national football league should go to Matt Light?
No, I said his performance on the blind side is as big if not bigger reason for the big pass game than Brady or Moss. No one should be MVP ever. It's never judged faitly. AP gets all this credit for huge numbers as a rookie in Minn, but the other guy gets big plays and big numbers too, and the blockers get no credit. The play calling and a practosing never even enters the equation. You never know just how valuable a player is based on numbers or performance in the NFL.
ohh, i see what your saying and that makes alot of sense actually lol. but since there is an mvp, and it will go to a QB, RB, or WR, it will go to brady :P
Of course it's going to go to Brady. If Favre had done even better in the second half then it may have beeen a split like Peyton/McNair that one year. Hey, if Moss breaks Rice's record (evenb though he didn't really) and Brady breaks Manning's then they might split it themselves.
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
i guess, but bradys won the super bowl wit branch, and givens. i mean stallworth and moss is def. a better combo (not to mention welker is an absolute monster). so sure randy is a factor in brady breakin records, and there 16-0 season, but brady has shown he can win a super bowl and play lik an mvp w/o randy.
QBs don't win Superbowls. Teams do. If Brady was on Buffalo all these years he'd have zero Superbowls. Zero playoff wins, and no one would care about him. Everything NE did the past few years could have been done with Bledsoe. No one wants to believe it but it's true. NE would have beaten St. Lous that year with Bledsoe just like they beat The Steelers when Bledsoe came in for Brady in the AFC Championship. Every year NE won they controlled the line on both sides and that is what won them the Superbowls. You control the line and don't make stupid mistakes and you win the game, every time.
controlling both sides wins every team their superbowl. brady still deserves mvp though. i think it's safe to say that he has the passing td record (not to jnyx the guy), but how can you break a record like that and not get mvp? i mean i could see if LT played better than he did last year and took it, but no else comes close to brady this year. also, let me ask you guys...if you say moss makes brady, or moss deserves mvp, then tell me how this is by far his best season, and why couldnt moss do this in oakland and make kerry collins or whoever was qb into what moss "made" brady...?
I never said Moss. I said Light. The O-line is the best O-line I've ever seen. No one Moss played with before had as much time to throw, giving Moss as much time to get open and to get down field. Take away the strong protection on the blind side and both Moss and Brady look average. Indy did it. Philly did it. and Baltimore did it. They got past Light and then they shut down the offense. Unforunately bad defense at the end and bonehead offense at bad times made all those teams lose. The NE offense was not the reason any of those wins occurred.
I think he'll win it. I just judge value on other merits. I really do believe that if Cassel played all season they'd still win their division and still have a first rnd bye. Now they may not have beaten the Colts, but they might have even with Cassel. I do not think the Colts would be above Jacksonville if Sorgi payed all season.
My pick for MVP a while back was Favre, but that may have been premature. In the end I don't believe in the award. It's a stupid award that recognizes individual effort in a very team oriented game. QBs get too much credit and too much blame. They are great when the team around them makes plays and terrible when the team around them doesn't. Very lttle to do with them. No one player can really turn around a team just by being on the field. Just because one player gets credit doesn't mean he should get it.
i get what your saying, but one thing is confusing me GREATLY...are you trying to say that the MVP of the national football league should go to Matt Light?
No, I said his performance on the blind side is as big if not bigger reason for the big pass game than Brady or Moss. No one should be MVP ever. It's never judged faitly. AP gets all this credit for huge numbers as a rookie in Minn, but the other guy gets big plays and big numbers too, and the blockers get no credit. The play calling and a practosing never even enters the equation. You never know just how valuable a player is based on numbers or performance in the NFL.
ohh, i see what your saying and that makes alot of sense actually lol. but since there is an mvp, and it will go to a QB, RB, or WR, it will go to brady :P
Of course it's going to go to Brady. If Favre had done even better in the second half then it may have beeen a split like Peyton/McNair that one year. Hey, if Moss breaks Rice's record (evenb though he didn't really) and Brady breaks Manning's then they might split it themselves.
that would be nuts...two MVP's on the same team.
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It would only make a second round playoff loss that much more laughable.
2007 Patriots
Undefeated season
2 MVPs
Too many records broken
Blown out by the Jags in the first playoff game.
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It would only make a second round playoff loss that much more laughable.
2007 Patriots
Undefeated season
2 MVPs
Too many records broken
Blown out by the Jags in the first playoff game.
Jaguars win 63-20 haha thatd be awesome
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It would only make a second round playoff loss that much more laughable.
2007 Patriots
Undefeated season
2 MVPs
Too many records broken
Blown out by the Jags in the first playoff game.
Jaguars win 63-20 haha thatd be awesome
LOL, we said that bout the dolphins, were gunna say it bout the giants, and then all through out the playoffs, but its not gunna happen.
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It would only make a second round playoff loss that much more laughable.
2007 Patriots
Undefeated season
2 MVPs
Too many records broken
Blown out by the Jags in the first playoff game.
Jaguars win 63-20 haha thatd be awesome
LOL, we said that bout the dolphins, were gunna say it bout the giants, and then all through out the playoffs, but its not gunna happen.
Giants have nothing to play for. Jacksonville is like Baltimore was last year but with a better offense. No one is beating NE under good weather conditions but Jack can beat them in the cold. And everyone knows if Harrison was healthy or if even Gonzalez wasn't still green Indy would have beaten them easily that game in week 9. They only lost because of terrible defensive playing at the end.
What I'd really like to see is the Titans back dooring their way to the playoffs and then beating NE like Pit did to Indy a couple years back.
All I'm saying is don't make it sound like NE is a lock for the Championship.
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And everyone knows if Harrison was healthy or if even Gonzalez wasn't still green Indy would have beaten them easily that game in week 9. They only lost because of terrible defensive playing at the end.
lol
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And everyone knows if Harrison was healthy or if even Gonzalez wasn't still green Indy would have beaten them easily that game in week 9. They only lost because of terrible defensive playing at the end.
lol
The guy dropped a short pass in the end zone and in the 4th quarter Indy DBs had two bad plays that gave NE about 100 yards total.
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If this happened, if that happened, blah, blah, blah. You can point to any little thing in a close game that could swing the result the other way. Those bullshit PI calls didn't help the Pats and playing in Indy's home didn't either.
Indy got outplayed and the better team one, end of story.
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If this happened, if that happened, blah, blah, blah. You can point to any little thing in a close game that could swing the result the other way. Those bullshit PI calls didn't help the Pats and playing in Indy's home didn't either.
Indy got outplayed and the better team one, end of story.
The penalties themselves actually did help them. They were two long passes that would have been TDs and ended up FGs.And yes they were interference penalties. When you put your arm on a WRs shoulder while he's running to the ball and you take him off track it's a penalty.
The better team did win. NE is better than an injured Colts. NE is not better than a healthy Colts, and NE plays better in good weather this year.
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my top MVP candidates
1-Jericho Cotchery
2-The PAtriots *new* camera man (Who hasn't been caught yet)
3-Randall Moss
4-Tom "Stat Queen" Brady
5-Brett Favre
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If this happened, if that happened, blah, blah, blah. You can point to any little thing in a close game that could swing the result the other way. Those bullshit PI calls didn't help the Pats and playing in Indy's home didn't either.
Indy got outplayed and the better team one, end of story.
you are such a moron.
and imo if the Colts are full strength they are better than the Pats, no doubt in my mind.
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If this happened, if that happened, blah, blah, blah. You can point to any little thing in a close game that could swing the result the other way. Those bullshit PI calls didn't help the Pats and playing in Indy's home didn't either.
Indy got outplayed and the better team one, end of story.
you are such a moron.
and imo if the Colts are full strength they are better than the Pats, no doubt in my mind.
no doubt in my mind too. i live in New england and have watched EVERY pats game this year besides the one this weekend vs miami since i was on a bus, and i can say that while the Pats are easily in a league of their own with the Colts, the pats have caught SOOOO many breaks this year.
marshawn lynch being out, donavon mcnabb being out, sean taylor beign out (AND two redskin starters on defense getting injured on the first drive) etc.
the colts don't get breaks like that, AND have a much tougher schedule, and are still 13-2 and in prime position to play the Pats in hte AFC title game. the pats offense also runs up the scores to add to their achievements.
either way both are the best teams in the league and will make a GREAT rematch.
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Take away Moss and Light and Brady wouldn't even have made the pro bowl this year. But he's a QB and everyone likes him, plus the numbers are there so he's going to get it. He's never gotten it before. He's been on 3 Superbowl teams. So they have to give it to him. Given the situation I think any number of QBs could have had similar numbers. You can give anyone from Roethlisberger to Warner to Schaub that much time in the pocket with a WR that can catch poorly thrown pop flies over two DBs and a slot guy that always gets wide open right infront of them and they'll have 40 something TDs too if their coach chose to run up the score on bad teams with pass plays only. You really don't have to be a great QB to play in the situation Brady has played in this year. How many times were te chips really down and Brady had to make a big play. The Pats have been behind a couple times yeah, but in Indy, Indy's D couldn't go 4 quarters. They gave away some big plays at the end. In Philly, Philly threw the ball away at the end. In Baltimore some very bad calls and coaching decisions saved the Pats. Every other game there was no chance of them losing or even needing a QB to win.
Randy Moss MVP. With a lot of help from bad DBs not knowing how to swat down flutter balls.
U make some good points, but geez man u cant ever get BRADY ANY FUCKIN CREDIT, its disgusting..get mannings dick out ur mouth..
Yeah and Montana wouldnt have been great without Rice and Taylor, etc but bottom line is he was!
And for Brady's other SB's he hasnt shit at WR but his defense was too good right?
and Ur such a Manning dickryder hes had MARVIN FUCKIN HARRISON his whole career to throw too, think about if Brady had that? Not mention Reggie Wayne does a WR combo get any better?
U make me sick with ur comments sometimes
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then peyton must be a TERRIBLE qb, with his two receivers.
i understand the point you're tryna make, but that's not necessarily true. Moss went to N.E already as an established WR, were-as Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and even that Gonzalez kid came to Indy as all rookies and have been molded into top targets.
Moss had 2 terrible seasons in Oakland people gave up on the guy, he lost a step, etc, etc..
And it doesnt matter if Reggie and Marvin were "molded" they both became great WR's and have been Peytons targets forever...
And another thing people, if you think just having Moss made brady what he is ur crazy, if they never got moss and just had Dante and Welker hed still have big numbers cuz Dante would just be that much more productive and look at Welker this year, sheesh....Im tired of people trying to discredit Brady, either his defense is too good or his Wr's are too good or whatever, All i gotta say is last year the defense was barely top ten, the Wr's were awful and he was still one drive from the SB..But yeah he has nothing to do with it, get the fuck outta here people..
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If this happened, if that happened, blah, blah, blah. You can point to any little thing in a close game that could swing the result the other way. Those bullshit PI calls didn't help the Pats and playing in Indy's home didn't either.
Indy got outplayed and the better team one, end of story.
you are such a moron.
and imo if the Colts are full strength they are better than the Pats, no doubt in my mind.
hows he a moron, shit always happens in games spice that could get called the other way, anyone who saw that monday night game KNOWS that was PI on 4th down and the Ravens were crying about it boo fuckin hoo his arm got fuckin pulled down THATS PI!!! The Colts didnt have Marvin Harrison against the Pats BOO FUCKIN HOO...they still lost at home when they had a ten point lead with under ten mins left. The better team won and they will win again...END OF FUCKIN STORY...oh yeah did u people forget that 49-28 WHOOPIN they put on Dallas AT DALLAS, what excuses you got for that Shallow?
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If this happened, if that happened, blah, blah, blah. You can point to any little thing in a close game that could swing the result the other way. Those bullshit PI calls didn't help the Pats and playing in Indy's home didn't either.
Indy got outplayed and the better team one, end of story.
you are such a moron.
and imo if the Colts are full strength they are better than the Pats, no doubt in my mind.
lol, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
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I say Brady. He made Donte Stallworth and Wes Welker look like number 1 receivers. And he made Moss look like the best WR that has ever lived(He's not on Rice's level yet though)
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I say Brady. He made Donte Stallworth and Wes Welker look like number 1 receivers. And he made Moss look like the best WR that has ever lived(He's not on Rice's level yet though)
exactly!!!!!
why didnt moss make Brooks or Walter better....???
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hell yeah moss deserves it
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i say the MVP should go to jericho cotchery
but it'll probably go to cindy brady
LMAO!!!! haha
dude post of the year...i laughed for like at least 5 minutes
on a side note..i was pissed i didn't get jericho these year in my fantasy draft
BTW...like that guy said..Brady = system QB...LOL!
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Excellent article. Where did you get it from and who wrote it?
some guy from yahoo sports lol
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I say Brady. He made Donte Stallworth and Wes Welker look like number 1 receivers. And he made Moss look like the best WR that has ever lived(He's not on Rice's level yet though)
Btw
Welker is great...hes like the #1 reciever when its come to Yards After Catch...becuase hes always open in the middle..WHY? becuase Moss is a huge downfield threat...
O line gives time for Brady, Brady looks for Moss, hes covered? go for dante...hes covered? Welker is in the motion in the middle BAMN! 10+++ yards First down ...frustrating for defences
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the guy that said Brady is a system qb should be banned...
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Take away Moss and Light and Brady wouldn't even have made the pro bowl this year. But he's a QB and everyone likes him, plus the numbers are there so he's going to get it. He's never gotten it before. He's been on 3 Superbowl teams. So they have to give it to him. Given the situation I think any number of QBs could have had similar numbers. You can give anyone from Roethlisberger to Warner to Schaub that much time in the pocket with a WR that can catch poorly thrown pop flies over two DBs and a slot guy that always gets wide open right infront of them and they'll have 40 something TDs too if their coach chose to run up the score on bad teams with pass plays only. You really don't have to be a great QB to play in the situation Brady has played in this year. How many times were te chips really down and Brady had to make a big play. The Pats have been behind a couple times yeah, but in Indy, Indy's D couldn't go 4 quarters. They gave away some big plays at the end. In Philly, Philly threw the ball away at the end. In Baltimore some very bad calls and coaching decisions saved the Pats. Every other game there was no chance of them losing or even needing a QB to win.
Randy Moss MVP. With a lot of help from bad DBs not knowing how to swat down flutter balls.
U make some good points, but geez man u cant ever get BRADY ANY FUCKIN CREDIT, its disgusting..get mannings dick out ur mouth..
Yeah and Montana wouldnt have been great without Rice and Taylor, etc but bottom line is he was!
And for Brady's other SB's he hasnt shit at WR but his defense was too good right?
and Ur such a Manning dickryder hes had MARVIN FUCKIN HARRISON his whole career to throw too, think about if Brady had that? Not mention Reggie Wayne does a WR combo get any better?
U make me sick with ur comments sometimes
Tom Brady is as good as Troy Aikman. Both are/were great. Hall of Fame QBs. Superbowls. But no one compared Aikman to Montana, Marino or Favre. The idea was ridiculous. That's all I'm saying. Manning is the best QB in the league. Brady doesn't come close. It's not a bad thing. Ewing, Barkley, Hakeem were all great players, but they weren't Jordan, and if all of them joined the same team and beat the Bulls a few times in the finals then they still wouldn't be Jordan.
Manning comes out this year with no Harrison for half the season, a beat up O-line with two main guys on and off the bench all year, an almost constantly double covered Wayne and he still puts up 4000 yards and 30 TDs. Two times more TDs than INTs. Gonzalez comes off the bench as a rookie and has great numbers for the amount he played. Wayne is not better than Moss but he beats him in every category except TDs. There was no running up the score in the 4th quarter. No 4th and 7 go for it after you're up by 30. No putting Manning back in the game to score TDs. Manning had 46 TDs with 4 games to go in '04. He played conservatively and with class and when he broke the record he took it easy. That same year Sorgi had 2 Tds and Edge ran in 9 or 10. They did this with a team that didn't have the greatest D to get them the ball back and didn't choose to run up the score. He's a better QB no matter how you slice it. Just because you think QBs win Superbowls doesn't mean it's true.
Woud Manning have Brady's numbers this year if he was on the Pats? No. Why? Because he'd take himself out of the game and call plays to give other guys chances. He's shown a level of class Bill and Brady haven't shown.
Bellicheck made it his mission early on to throw respect out the window, and to throw the ball in the end zone as much as possible even when an easy run in can happen. He's trying to convince people Brady's as good as Manning. Manning doesn't have to try and convince anyone. In 20 years time Manning will be the guy with all the records, probably coaching championship teams, and he'll be considered among the very greatest, and best of his era.
Saying Brady isn't Manning isn't knocking the guy. But I garauntee that if Brady was drafted by Buffalo in 2000 we wouldn't even know his name right now. The worst thing that would have happened to Manning's legacy if he ended up on a shit team is he'd be remebered like Dan Fouts is remembered.
P.S. It wasn't Rice that made Montana look as good as he did. It was Walsh. No Walsh on those 9ers and no Superbowls. No Montana and they'd still win 3 or 4. Montana would still end up being a great QB somewhere else. But Walsh had the plan and he needed the guy to do the job. The last two could have been won with Young. Joe Gibb showed us that you can switch QBs around all the time and keep winning. The QB isn't worth as much as the sports media wants us to believe.
Like I told someone else before, put Manning on Miami and Brady on the Jets, this year, and neither team makes the playoffs. But Manning still does way better than Brady.
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i agree, the only thing keeping MAnning from having 3 rings like Brady is the fact hes never had a defense
but either way Manning and Brady are both top 5 QB's of all time in my book (with montana, elway and unitas)
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i agree, the only thing keeping MAnning from having 3 rings like Brady is the fact hes never had a defense
but either way Manning and Brady are both top 5 QB's of all time in my book (with montana, elway and unitas)
5 is too small a number for me. I could never pick 5 guys to say are the best. Too many greats for too many years. Some stats mean a lot more in some eras than other stats. Bart Starr never had more than 2500 yards but he ever threw the ball more than 250 times a year. Qbs today throw between 400 and 500 times. In the same era Jurgensen would often near 3500 yards but he threw the ball a hell of a lot more.
It's very hard to judge any QB really. So much depends on theings not in their control. Brady always played very well but this year so much was out of his hands. Eli may make terrible decisions in New York but give him 9 seconds to throw the ball and a wide open Welker every time and you won't see mistakes coming from him this year. And some of those pop flies to Moss were terrible but Moss came down with them and you get a great stat at the end of the game.
The only reason I say Peyton so confidently is because of all he does outside his duties as QB. His practice schedules. His play calling. He may as well be part of the coaching staff. Remember that game they lost against Pit in the playoffs when it was 4th down. The kick unit is coming on the field and Manning orders them off and calls a first down play. How many other players can do that? Are allowed to? That's why I say any team can grab him right now and no matter how bad they are, an off season of practice, and by the end of the year they'll be an elite offense, the second year unless the defense is outright terrible they'll be playoff bound. If Brady ever told Bellicheck to fuck off I'm running my play he'd be on the bench for the year and Bill would make his new mission proving to the world he doesn't need Brady. And Kraft would support Bill over Brady.
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i cant wait until the patriots run is over. other teams will be running the score up on them lol
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lol @ running up the score and "they should be running, not passing"...this isn't peewee football ladies, it's the NFL
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lol @ running up the score and "they should be running, not passing"...this isn't peewee football ladies, it's the NFL
it's called karma.
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karma? haha, this thread is entertaining
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as is the slick rick on your avatar
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lol @ running up the score and "they should be running, not passing"...this isn't peewee football ladies, it's the NFL
I'm saying it's easy to score on teams that are already done and beaten particularly when you keep your starters in. Manning takes himself out oof games. He only played 15 games the year he had 49. He left the game after one series with Denver. Te same Denver he usually throws 4 or 5 TDs against, Sorgi threw 2 TDs in the game. The first playoff game was against Denver and Peyton threw 4. He could have had 53 or 54 TDs that season, but he didn't feel the need to. Brady already has 40 more pass attempts than Manning had that year.
As an opposing coach I would just injure a key player if Bill did it it to me. "oops, sorry Randy was that your elbow?. I guess you shouldn't have pushed off my DB for a TD catch after you were up by 4 scores". "Sorry Welker, I didn't want to drop you on your head but remember that last series where you scored a TD and made it 48 to 7, I guess you shouldn't have spiked the ball and celebrated like you just scored a comeback TD". It's Joe Greene style football and it doest have to earn or deserve respect, it takes respect.