Who "killed hip hop"? Someone said them Franchise boys and others.

[Stone Cold is Bout It, Bout It]

Dipset killed hip hop.

[Eihtball]

ok but there's a difference between most west coast rappers and most dirty south cats...dj quik actually rhymes and flows....while D4L and  other south motherfuckers dont...so i dont agree with u on that one....

D4L is just one really, REALLY bad example.  But there are plenty of Southern cats who rhyme and flow.

When it comes to depth, consciousness, etc., Quik is no better than the average Southern "crunk" rapper.  His music is party music, not conscious or political or anything else.  There's nothing wrong with that, but y'all act like these Southern cats who make the same kind of music are so wack when the reality is that they're no better or worse than Quik.

[Meho]

ok but there's a difference between most west coast rappers and most dirty south cats...dj quik actually rhymes and flows....while D4L and  other south motherfuckers dont...so i dont agree with u on that one....

D4L is just one really, REALLY bad example.  But there are plenty of Southern cats who rhyme and flow.

When it comes to depth, consciousness, etc., Quik is no better than the average Southern "crunk" rapper.  His music is party music, not conscious or political or anything else.  There's nothing wrong with that, but y'all act like these Southern cats who make the same kind of music are so wack when the reality is that they're no better or worse than Quik.

Agreed.

[SGV]

You wanna blame it on the Club? One song I'll bring up and your arguement is not void:

Sugar Hill Gang - Rappers Delight

You wanna blame it on Money/Flossing on records? One song I'll bring up and your arguement is not void:

Sugar Hill Gang - Rappers Delight



The first credited Rap track A CLUB TRACK and contained FLOSSY lyrics. You people here don't know what to blame it on, so you try to blame the Mainstream. Dudes have BEEN rockin' their chains and talking about it. It's just that NOW people have more money and EVERYONE has chains. People been making Club tracks, it's just that the Club is a place that makes or breaks you now, so more people make Club tracks. But, it's NOTHING new. 

D4L is no different than your 69 Boyz, 95 South etc. They're not killing Hip Hop. HELL, they only had one big song. Ya'll are just going by what these East Coast Rappers (Who are upset that NY isn't on top) are saying. Sure, there's Southern Rappers who don't like them, but it's not a big deal to them. DFB... They're not that bad. They proved that they would make more than one hit.

LMAO @ Someone using DJ Quik as an example for rhyming. That's the problem with the West, they think because they like someone, that artist is the best thing since sliced bread. Quik wouldn't want it with Luda, T.I., Shawn Jay, Smoke, Lil Wayne, Bun B etc.

[Eihtball]

You wanna blame it on the Club? One song I'll bring up and your arguement is not void:

Sugar Hill Gang - Rappers Delight

You wanna blame it on Money/Flossing on records? One song I'll bring up and your arguement is not void:

Sugar Hill Gang - Rappers Delight



The first credited Rap track A CLUB TRACK and contained FLOSSY lyrics. You people here don't know what to blame it on, so you try to blame the Mainstream. Dudes have BEEN rockin' their chains and talking about it. It's just that NOW people have more money and EVERYONE has chains. People been making Club tracks, it's just that the Club is a place that makes or breaks you now, so more people make Club tracks. But, it's NOTHING new. 

Thank you, SGV, that's what I'm saying.  These younguns who claim it's all club/pop shit that's killing hip-hop act like that ain't what hip-hop is about in the first place.

The very first rap song I ever heard was Run-DMC's "My Adidas", when I was about 8 or 9, and it was just 3 minutes of them bragging about a brand of shoes that they worshipped.  And once that song came out, everyone in my hood was jamming it and saving up to buy Adidas.  15 years later, Nelly also made a song bragging about shoes ("Air Force Ones") and everyone labels him a sellout and calls him a "cancer of hip-hop".

D4L is no different than your 69 Boyz, 95 South etc. They're not killing Hip Hop. HELL, they only had one big song. Ya'll are just going by what these East Coast Rappers (Who are upset that NY isn't on top) are saying. Sure, there's Southern Rappers who don't like them, but it's not a big deal to them. DFB... They're not that bad. They proved that they would make more than one hit.

More like, they're just going by what these WEST COAST rappers are saying, since this is DubCC.  How often do you hear West Coast rappers complain about not being on top, and then their excuse is that they're just "too real" or "too hardcore" for the mainstream?  These niggas act like radio wasn't playing their G-Funk records 24/7 just a decade ago...that's the whole reason cats from the East started hatin on the West in the first place; because G-Funk was oversaturating the mainstream just like Southern crunk is doing today.

LMAO @ Someone using DJ Quik as an example for rhyming. That's the problem with the West, they think because they like someone, that artist is the best thing since sliced bread. Quik wouldn't want it with Luda, T.I., Shawn Jay, Smoke, Lil Wayne, Bun B etc.

Amen, truth spoken again.  Like I said, it's hypocritical for these DubCC cats to criticize the East and the South for putting out club/party music because ALL of them listen to West Coast rappers who put out the same kind of music - club/party joints.  Quik is just one of many examples.

[Eihtball]

Oh, and here are the lyrics to "Rapper's Delight" for anyone who doesn't know the song (which is probably a lot of you, if these posts are any indication):

i said a hip hop the hippie the hippie
to the hip hip hop, a you dont stop
the rock it to the bang bang boogie
say up jumped the boogie
to the rhythm of the boogie, the beat

now what you hear is not a test--i'm rappin to the beat
and me, the groove, and my friends
are gonna try to move your feet
see i am wonder mike and i like to say hello
to the black, to the white, the red, and the brown,
the purple and yellow
but first i gotta bang bang the boogie to the boogie
say up jump the boogie to the bang bang boogie
let's rock, you dont stop
rock the riddle that will make your body rock
well so far youve heard my voice
but i brought two friends along
and next on the mike is my man hank
come on, hank, sing that song

check it out, i'm the c-a-s-an-the-o-v-a
and the rest is f-l-y
ya see i go by the code of the doctor of the mix
and these reasons i'll tell ya why
ya see i'm six foot one and i'm tons of fun
and i dress to a t
ya see i got more clothes
than muhammad ali and i dress so viciously
i got bodyguards, i got two big cars
that definitely aint the wack
i got a lincoln continental and a sunroof cadillac
so after school, i take a dip in the pool
which really is on the wall
i got a color tv so i can see
the knicks play basketball
hear me talkin bout checkbooks, credit cards
more money than a sucker could ever spend
but i wouldnt give a sucker or a bum from the rucker
not a dime til i made it again
ya go hotel motel whatcha gonna do today (say what)
ya say im gonna get a fly girl gonna get some spankin
drive off in a def oj
everybody go, hotel motel holiday inn
say if your girl starts actin up, then you take her friend
master gee, am I mellow
its on you so what you gonna do

well it's on n on n on on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
i said m-a-s, t-e-r, a g with a double e
i said i go by the unforgettable name
of the man they call the master gee
well, my name is known all over the world
by all the foxy ladies and the pretty girls
i'm goin down in history
as the baddest rapper there could ever be
now i'm feelin the highs and ya feelin the lows
the beat starts gettin into your toes
ya start poppin ya fingers and stompin your feet
and movin your body while youre sittin in your seat
and the damn ya start doin the freak
i said damn, right outta your seat
then ya throw your hands high in the air
ya rockin to the rhythm, shake your derriere
ya rockin to the beat without a care
with the sureshot m.c.s for the affair
now, im not as tall as the rest of the gang
but i rap to the beat just the same
i dot a little face and a pair of brown eyes
all im here to do ladies is hypnotize
singin on n n on n on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
singin on n n on n on on n on
like a hot buttered a pop da pop da pop dibbie dibbie
pop da pop pop ya dont dare stop
come alive yall gimme what ya got
i guess by now you can take a hunch
and find that i am the baby of the bunch
'but that's okay i still keep in stride
cause all i'm here to do is just wiggle your behind
singin on n n on n on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
singin on n n on n on on n on
rock rock yall throw it on the floor
im gonna freak ya here im gonna feak ya there
im gonna move you outta this atmosphere
cause im one of a kind and ill shock your mind
ill put t-t-tickets in your behind
i said 1-2-3-4, come on girls get on the floor
a-come alive, yall a-gimme what ya got
cause im guaranteed to make you rock
i said 1-2-3-4 tell me wonder mike what are you waitin for?

i said a hip hop the hippie to the hippie
the hip hip hop, a you dont stop
the rock it to the bang bang boogie
say up jumped the boogie
to the rhythm of the boogie, the beat
skiddlee beebop a we rock a scoobie doo
and guess what america we love you
cause ya rock and ya roll with so much soul
you could rock till you're a hundred and one years old
i dont mean to brag i dont mean to boast
but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast
rock it up baby bubbah
baby bubbah to the boogie da bang bang da boogie
to the beat beat, its so unique
come on everybody and dance to the beat

i said a hip hop the hippie the hippie
to the hip hip hop, a you dont stop
rock it out baby bubbah to the boogie da bang bang
the boogie to the boogie da beat

i said i cant wait til the end of the week
when im rappin to the rhythm of a groovy beat
and attempt to raise your body heat
just blow your mind so that you cant speak
and do a thing but a rock and shuffle your feet
and let it change up to a dance called the freak
and when ya finally do come in to your rhythmic beat
rest a little while so ya dont get weak
i know a man named hank
he has more rhymes than a serious bank
so come on hank sing that song
to the rhythm of the boogie da bang bang da bong

well, im imp the dimp the ladies pimp
the women fight for my delight
but im the grandmaster with the three mcs
that shock the house for the young ladies
and when you come inside, into the front
you do the freak, spank, and do the bump
and when the sucker mcs try to prove a point

we're treacherous trio, we're the serious joint
a from sun to sun and from day to day
i sit down and write a brand new rhyme
because they say that miracles never cease
i've created a devastating masterpiece
i'm gonna rock the mike til you cant resist
everybody, i say it goes like this
well i was comin home late one dark afternoon
a reporter stopped me for a interview
she said she's heard stories and she's heard fables
that i'm vicious on the mike and the turntables
this young reporter i did adore
so i rocked a vicious rhyme like i never did before
she said damn fly guy im in love with you
the casanova legend must have been true
i said by the way baby what's your name
said i go by the name of lois lane
and you could be my boyfiend you surely can
just let me quit my boyfriend called superman
i said he's a fairy i do suppoose
flyin through the air in pantyhose
he may be very sexy or even cute
but he looks like a sucker in a blue and red suit
i said you need a man who's got finesse
and his whole name across his chest
he may be able to fly all through the night
but can he rock a party til the early light
he cant satisfy you with his little worm
but i can bust you out with my super sperm
i go do it, i go do it, i go do it, do it , do it
an i'm here an i'm there i'm big bang hank, im everywhere
just throw your hands up in the air
and party hardy like you just dont care
let's do it dont stop yall a tick a tock yall you dont stop
go hotel motel what you gonna do today (say what)
im gonna get a fly girl gonna get some spank drive off in a def oj
everybody go hotel motel holiday inn
you say if your girl starts actin up then you take her friend
i say skip, dive, what can i say
i cant fit em all inside my oj
so i just take half and bust them out
i give the rest to master gee so he could shock the house

it was twelve o'clock one friday night
i was rockin to the beat and feelin all right
everybody was dancin on the floor
doin all the things they never did before
and then this fly fly girl with a sexy lean
she came into the bar, she came into the scene
as she traveled deeper inside the room
all the fellas checked out her white sasoons
she came up to the table, looked into my eyes
then she turned around and shook her behind
so i said to myself, its time for me to release
my vicious rhyme i call my masterpiece
and now people in the house this is just for you
a little rap to make you boogaloo
now the group ya hear is called phase two
and let me tell ya somethin we're a helluva crew
once a week we're on the street
just a-cuttin' the jams and making it free
for you to party ya got to have the movies
so we'll get right down and give you the groove
for you to dance you gotta get hype
so we'll get right down for you tonight
now the system's on and the girls are there
ya definitely have a rockin affair
but let me tell ya somethin there's still one fact
that to have a party ya got to have a rap
so when the party's over you're makin it home
and tryin to sleep before the break of dawn
and while ya sleepin ya start to dream
and thinkin how ya danced on the disco scene
my name appears in your mind
yeah, a name you know that was right on time
it was phase two just a doin a do
rockin ya down cause ya know we could
to the rhythm of the beat that makes ya freak
come alive girls get on your feet
to the rhythm of the beat to the beat the beat
to the double beat beat that it makes ya freak
to the rhythm of the beat that says ya go on
on n on into the break of dawn
now i got a man comin on right now
he's guaranteed to throw down
he goes by the name of wonder mike
come on wonder mike do what ya like

like a can of beer that's sweeter than honey
like a millionaire that has no money
like a rainy day that is not wet
like a gamblin fiend that does not bet
like dracula with out his fangs
like the boogie to the boogie without the boogie bang
like collard greens that dont taste good
like a tree that's not made out of wood
like goin up and not comin down
is just like the beat without the sound no sound
to the beat beat, ya do the freak
everybody just rock and dance to the beat
have you ever went over a friends house to eat
and the food just aint no good
i mean the macaroni's soggy the peas are mushed
and the chicken tastes like wood
so you try to play it off like you think you can
by sayin that youre full
and then your friend says momma he's just being polite
he aint finished uh uh that's bull
so your heart starts pumpin and you think of a lie
and you say that you already ate
and your friend says man there's plenty of food
so you pile some more on your plate
while the stinky foods steamin your mind starts to dreamin
of the moment that it's time to leave
and then you look at your plate and your chickens slowly rottin
into something that looks like cheese
oh so you say that's it i got to leave this place
i dont care what these people think
im just sittin here makin myself nauseous
with this ugly food that stinks
so you bust out the door while its still closed
still sick from the food you ate
and then you run to the store for quick relief
from a bottle of kaopectate
and then you call your friend two weeks later
to see how he has been
and he says i understand about the food
baby bubbah but we're still friends
with a hip hop the hippie to the hippie
the hip hip a hop a you dont stop the rockin
to the bang bang boogie
say up jump the boogie to the rhythm of the boogie the beat
i say hank can ya rock
can ya rock to the rhythm that just dont stop
can ya hip me to the shoobie doo
i said come on make the make the people move

i go to the halls and then ring the bell
because i am the man with the clientele
and if ya ask me why i rock so well
a big bang, i got clientele
and from the time i was only six years old
i never forgot what i was told
it was the best advice that i ever had
it came from my wise dear old dad
he said sit down punk i wanna talk to you
and dont say a word until i'm through
now there's a time to laugh a time to cry
a time to live and a time to die
a time to break and a time to chill
to act civilized or act real ill
but whatever ya do in your lifetime
ya never let a mc steal your rhyme
so from sixty six til this very day
ill always remember what he had to say
so when the sucker mcs try to chump my style
i let them know that i'm versatile
i got style finesse and a little black book
that's filled with rhymes and i know you wanna look
but there's a thing that separates you from me
and that's called originality
because my rhymes are on from what you heard
i didnt even bite and not a god d--m word
and i say a little more later on tonight
so the sucker mc's can bite all night
a tick a tock yall a beat beat yall
a lets rock yall ya dont stop
ya go hotel motel whatcha gonna do today (say what)
ya say im gonna get a fly girl gonna get some spankin
drive off in a def oj
everybody go hotel motel holiday inn
ya say if your girl starts actin up then you take her friends
a like that yall to the beat yall
beat beat yall ya dont stop
a master gee am I mellow?
its on you so whatcha gonna do

well like johnny carson on the late show
a like frankie croker in stereo
well like the barkay's singin holy ghost
the sounds to throw down they're played the most

its like my man captain sky
whose name he earned with his super sperm
we rock and we dont stop
get off yall im here to give you whatcha got
to the beat that it makes you freak
and come alive girl get on your feet
a like a perry mason without a case
like farrah fawcett without her face

like the barkays on the mike
like gettin right down for you tonight
like movin your body so ya dont know how
right to the rhythm and throw down

like comin alive to the master gee
the brother who rocks so viciously
i said the age of one my life begun
at the age of two i was doin the do
at the age of three it was you and me
rockin to the sounds of the master gee
at the age of four i was on the floor
givin all the freaks what they bargained for
at the age of five i didnt take no jive
with the master gee its all the way live
at the age of six i was a pickin up sticks
rappin to the beat my stick was fixed
at the age of seven i was rockin
in heaven dontcha know i went off
i got right on down to the beat you see
gettin right on down makin all the girls
just take of their clothes to the beat the beat
to the double beat beat that makes you freak
at the age of eight i was really great
cause every night you see i had a date
at the age of nine i was right on time
cause every night i had a party rhyme
goin on n n on n on on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
a sayin on n n on n on on n on...
like a hot buttered de pop de pop de pop
a saying on n n on n on on n on
cause i'm a helluva man when i'm on the mike
i am the definate feast delight
cause i'm a helluva man when i'm on the mike
i am the definate feast delight
come to the master gee you see
the brother who rocks so viciously

[SGV]

I can't remember who it was on here, but we had a debate on how "My Adidas" was no different than "Air Force Ones." But, since it's Run DMC they get a pass, yet Nelly gets on the blame.

The reason I brought East Coast cats cuz dudes like Kay Slay and Ghostface have been dissing D4L and shit a lot lately. I don't think too many West Coast artists diss these dudes, as far as I seen. It's mainly the fans on these net boards.

Word to Quik being no different than a lot of Southern Rappers. Look at some of his "bigger" tracks. Shit like "Tonite," "Down, Down, Down," "Do I Luv Her," "Pitch In On A Party," etc. are all up-tempo-club ready joints. Difference is, they like Quik and don't like a majority of Southern rappers.

[Eihtball]

I can't remember who it was on here, but we had a debate on how "My Adidas" was no different than "Air Force Ones." But, since it's Run DMC they get a pass, yet Nelly gets on the blame.

The reason I brought East Coast cats cuz dudes like Kay Slay and Ghostface have been dissing D4L and shit a lot lately. I don't think too many West Coast artists diss these dudes, as far as I seen. It's mainly the fans on these net boards.

Word to Quik being no different than a lot of Southern Rappers. Look at some of his "bigger" tracks. Shit like "Tonite," "Down, Down, Down," "Do I Luv Her," "Pitch In On A Party," etc. are all up-tempo-club ready joints. Difference is, they like Quik and don't like a majority of Southern rappers.

I've had that debate before on other message boards.  It's a point I always bring up, yet I get shunned for it.  Not that I like Nelly much myself; I just don't feel dude's flow.  But I would never say I hate Nelly just because he made a "commercial" song about shoes.  Otherwise, I'd be a hypocrite cause it was a song about shoes that got me into hip-hop in the first place.

Yeah, East Coast cats been dissing D4L, but I hear West Coast rappers dissing both the East and the South all the time.  I remember Kam wrote some article for the arts section of the L.A. Times where he argued what I mentioned earlier - that there was some sort of conspiracy to keep West Coast rap off the radio because it's "too real" and people only want watered-down NYC/Dirty South rap.  Cuzz was acting like the West ain't ever been "watered down" (it still is today).

And word to Quik getting a pass...shit, we might as well not even give Dre or Snoop a pass, because "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" were very much club albums.  Do cats really think that "Nuthin But A G Thang" and "Gin and Juice" weren't getting lots of rotation on the radio and love in the clubs back in '93?

These muh'fuckas are just young, that's all.

[SGV]

I used to be one of those "They don't wanna hear the real deal" type of dudes too. Then I realized, Hip Hop is more than being real, it's being entertaining. Dudes like Jayo are cool to us, but in the grand scheme of things... Nobody will digs him outside of Cali. And, even the dudes in Cali that like him don't really support him. They'd rather DL everything... Just like with Mixtapes. There's a reason Kay Slay, Envy, Clue, Green Lantern etc. are so powerful in this industry: Their mixtapes are actually BOUGHT by their fans. East Coast dudes really understand that supporting the Underground/Indi scene is important. That's why we have D4L and DFB, they started out with a Regional song that was only meant for a specific area in Atlanta, got so much support from their home that they blew up. It's not that the music isn't good, because I hear some real good West Coast music, but the support's not there. Dudes are just too afraid to see "Club Shit" help the West come back (which is why people are hating on Hyphy).

[Eihtball]

Dudes are just too afraid to see "Club Shit" help the West come back (which is why people are hating on Hyphy).

And that's what it comes down to with the West, always.  You simply can't get away with changing styles in the West without getting hatedonfor it.  L.A. niggas are the most closed-minded and conservative in all of hip-hop - they want the same shit over and over.

You've only gotta look at how "Cali Iz Active" is being received on DubCC right now.  Personally, I agree it's a shit album, but these cats all say shit like, "It should have had more tracks by Battlecat and Soopafly, more guest slots from DPG, etc" and "Diddy, Swizz Beatz, David Banner Paul Wall shouldn't be on it."  Never mind that the BC and Soopafly tracks are as wack as David Banner's or Swizzy's, and that the few DPG guest appearances on hand aren't any better than Diddy's or Paul Wall's.  So you see, the problem is just that they hate anything different on principle, regardless of whether it's good or bad music.  And that's why they don't support different artists who just might be able to put the West back on top.

[Drudge]

What I believe is that artists today dont have anything new to bring to the table. Rappers are "formula" oriented. For example I hear artists promote their album they say "Its gonna have some club songs, some of that gangsta shit, some of that r&b shit, etc." New artists arent trying to outdo the past generation like the Ice Cubes, DOC's, Dre's, Snoop Dogg's, Nas, Rakim's, WuTang, Scarface, GangStarr, Eminem, you get the picture. All those artists plus others I cant think of at the moment brought something new to the rap game to keep it fresh. They all had their own style and everyhting. Now everybody has a white tee with a hat of every fucking ugly color with air forces or some shit yo get what Im saying? Everybody raps the same, sounds the same, dresses the same, and most of all they get in the rap game to make money, not great timeless music.

I would like to know if you guys agree with me, even if you dont or have something bad to say just say it because I wanna know what everyone thinks about this!!

I agree 100% bro, The music is lacking that element big-time right now..

SECOND THAT!!!

[Meho]

2 Muh'phuccin Xtra 4 Cali and SGC you both get a prop.

Couldnt agree more.

[Drudge]

Dudes are just too afraid to see "Club Shit" help the West come back (which is why people are hating on Hyphy).

And that's what it comes down to with the West, always.  You simply can't get away with changing styles in the West without getting hatedonfor it.  L.A. niggas are the most closed-minded and conservative in all of hip-hop - they want the same shit over and over.

You've only gotta look at how "Cali Iz Active" is being received on DubCC right now.  Personally, I agree it's a shit album, but these cats all say shit like, "It should have had more tracks by Battlecat and Soopafly, more guest slots from DPG, etc" and "Diddy, Swizz Beatz, David Banner Paul Wall shouldn't be on it."  Never mind that the BC and Soopafly tracks are as wack as David Banner's or Swizzy's, and that the few DPG guest appearances on hand aren't any better than Diddy's or Paul Wall's.  So you see, the problem is just that they hate anything different on principle, regardless of whether it's good or bad music.  And that's why they don't support different artists who just might be able to put the West back on top.

And that's what it comes down to with the West, always.  You simply can't get away with changing styles in the West without getting hatedonfor it.  L.A. niggas are the most closed-minded and conservative in all of hip-hop - they want the same shit over and over.

The south's shit sound the same too.

[SGV]

^On the contrary. Here's a comparison list of some Southern Artists who have released Major records as of late:

Little Brother sounds NOTHING like Paul Wall.

Paul Wall sounds NOTHING like Young Jeezy.

Young Jeezy sounds NOTHING like Pitbull.

Pitbull sounds NOTHING like 3-6 Mafia.

3-6 Mafia sound NOTHING like Big Boi.

I can go on. The South is HUGE for one. Two, there's so many different styles, to say they sound the same is laughable.

[Mr. O]

i believe white fans killed it mainly majority of time they don't understand shit.  They think money and looking good is hip hop.