Kobe...

[Shallow]

I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ...  so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..

I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and  if  you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?

Maybe not, but with Lebron in his prime and Shaq in his prime I'd guess about 4 straight titles.

LMAO...LeBron doesn't have the outide game nor the clutch play to make a LeBron-Shaq duo even HALF as successful as the Kobe-Shaq 1-2 punch of the threepeat era. The inside-outside game was vital. Shaq clogged up the lane, where LeBron scores most his point...do you watch basketball, Shallow? Because you do seem like a knowledgeable person...just that you sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about in this instance, and a lot of the time when you argue against Kobe.

I'm not arguing against Kobe here. Kobe is in his prime now and the last few years. Kobe in his prime with Shaq in his prime would be a at least 4 straight as well. I don't think Kobe was at his absolute best in those three years and I don't think he was as good as Lebron is now in those three years. What I saw was an unstoppable Shaq and with the Bulls dismantled he could have won 2 titles with me, fuck Lebron. So I feel that Lebron as is playing with Shaq in the late 90s early 2000s would have either beaten one of those Jazz or Spurs teams and also won the three the Lakers won.

And based on what I've seen with the modern Cavs I don't see Kobe doing any better with that team than Lebron did.

I never said Lebron was better than Kobe. You've won the Kobe debate with me. He's the best player right now. Just not by a landslide, and still not as valuable to me as a '99 Shaq.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ...  so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..

I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and  if  you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?

I agree. I wouldnt say he was your average #2 option. Not at all. And Ive never argued that Ginobli was as good as Kobe lol. All Im saying is, he WAS the #2 guy on that team. That is clear, and very obvious. EVERYone knows it. That doesnt mean he wasnt a HUGE part of those championships. Without Kobe, they would not have three-peated. That has never been my argument. My point is, when you look at those titles...you DO have to take into account the fact that he was the #2. Especially when Kobe fans try to argue Kobe>Jordan. There IS a big difference between being THE man on a championship team, and being the #2 man on a championship team as far as legacy is concerned.

[wcsoldier]

No guards  is seeing Jordan in terms of accomplishment and efficiency ... this debate should be put to rest ...


 I have always said that Kobe offensive arsenal is better and a Kobe on fire is more impressive than a MJ in the zone but Kobe cannot fuck with MJ numbers and efficiency  in the playoffs and in the Finals and thats a fact....

[OG Hack Wilson]

the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron.  and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)

the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.

[polepositon]

KOBE!!!!!!!!!  

[teecee]

Its fucked up cuz I started this thread as a compliment to Kobe...but certain Kobe stans gotta get offended by that, and try to prove he is the best ever.



Jordan once averaged over 40 in the finals

Another time he put up 31, 11 assists, and 7 boards for averages

Another time 35, 6, and 5


Jordan scored 13 fg in a row (including the signature lay-up) against L.A.


You saw his last finals game, right?


Jordan went to six finals, won 6 MVPs...no one will EVER fuck with that.   


Kobe will really have his work cut ot fro him...I would say Kobe right now is SUPERIOR to the player he was during the first three titles, and even last year.   But its gonna take a lot to usneat the god. 

[mackiain]

When Kobe was younger he tried to run his teams show all the time too sometimes hurting them. LeBron does the same thing. You can't compare the two until LeBron gets at least  one or two rings.

[LooN3y]

the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron.  and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)

the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.

lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.

its either going to be kobe or mj



none of those old school guys  come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.


lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron.  and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)

the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.

lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.

its either going to be kobe or mj



none of those old school guys  come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.


lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.

I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.

The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.

You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.

[Chamillitary Click]

lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.

you mean terms of things you can't physically judge? all of those things are speculation.

[C-BLUE]

aight my niggas Im a put this shit to rest. As much as I like Kobe that nigga don't even come close to Jordan. None of 'em niggas come close to that nigga. Not Magic, LeBron, D-Wade or any of 'em fools. Everybody know Kobe is a ball hog and yeah the niggas is good, maybe the best today and I love that nigga, but the '92 MJ was simply unstoppable. I don't give a fucc if some bitch ass cry baby nigga from the Boston "I wanna thank the Lord" Celtics broke some record. Ray didn't do shit but get luccy that night, he's a bitch in every other game, MJ was consistent. And who the fucc is gonna score 63 points against the best defense team in the world except MJ? Checc the statitistics nigga. He beats Kobe in scoring average, assists, rebounds, steals, bloccs, almost everything. Niggas say theres more talent today, I say fucc that, checc the early '90s games, the game was faster, tougher, niggas wasn't all about the offensive, it was more strategic.

[OG Hack Wilson]

top 20 NBA players ever as of june 2010:


Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Hakeem Olajuwan
Tim Duncan
Shaq O'Neal
Kareem Jabbar
Kevin Garnett
John Stockton
Karl Malone
Kobe Bryant
Isiaih Thomas
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Elgin Baylor
Charles Barkley
Lebron James

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

top 20 NBA players ever as of june 2010:


Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Hakeem Olajuwan
Tim Duncan
Shaq O'Neal
Kareem Jabbar
Kevin Garnett
John Stockton
Karl Malone
Kobe Bryant
Isiaih Thomas
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Elgin Baylor
Charles Barkley
Lebron James

Your top ten look pretty on par with most lists ive seen out there from analysts. Only the order is a little off. Most Ive seen have Wilt above Bird and Magic and even Russell and Kareem. Also most Ive seen have Magic ahead of Bird....but always usually #4 and #5....or #5 and #6. After the top ten man lol I havent seen ANYONE rate Garnett that high. Above Malone, Barkely?? lol Not even close. Garnett is typically not even considered one of the top FOUR PF's all time.

[OG Hack Wilson]

i would rank Oscar #2 over magic AND larry but most niggas on here would go crazy

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

i would rank Oscar #2 over magic AND larry but most niggas on here would go crazy

I actually agree with you. He is just too far in the past for people now to realize his greatness. The Big O was Lebron before Lebron...only with better stats than anyone in history lol

I mean..look at the first 6 years (especially the last 3 categories) lol RIDICULOUS

Year Team          G    Min.   FGM FGA    Pct. FTM   FTA Pct.  Reb.   Ast.    PF  D   Pts.   RPG    APG  PPG
60-61  Cincinnati  71  3012  756  1600  .473  653  794  .822  716  *690  219  3  2165  10.1  *9.7  30.5 
61-62  Cincinnati  79  3503  866  1810  .478  700  872  .803  985  *899  258  1  2432  12.5  *11.4  30.8 
62-63  Cincinnati  80  3521  825  1593  .518  614  758  .810  835  758  293  1  2264  10.4  9.5  28.3 
63-64  Cincinnati  79  3559  840  1740  .483  *800  938  *.853  783  *868  280  3  2480  9.9  *11.0  31.4 
64-65  Cincinnati  75  3421  807  1681  .480  *665  793  .839  674  *861  205  2  2279  9.0  *11.5  30.4 
65-66  Cincinnati  76  3493  818  1723  .475  742  881  .842  586  *847  227  1  2378  7.7  *11.1  31.3 
66-67  Cincinnati  79  3468  838  1699  .493  736  843  .873  486  845  226  2  2412  6.2  *10.7  30.5 


Not to mention...I dont think they were recording blocks back then. Until 1973-74. The end of his career...and THAT year he averaged 4.0 blocks per game with his lowest minutes per game played of his career. So you can only imagine what kind of Block totals he was putting up in his prime. He was fuckin nuts.