khalil > dre

[Sccit]

lol @ NIK using Youtube as a valid source.

Then lol @ NIK not believing the back cover to the CD's single because he's wrong.

Khalil is ill. I think producing goes "what have you done for me lately?" though. If Detox does come out & it blows us away production-wise & it's all Dre, we're gunna say he's still the best. But it's not like other things where once somebody is better than you, it's almost impossible to get back better than them (like sports).

But to be honest, I'd still be alright whether I see Khalil or Dre's name credited.

maybe u don't understand, but Dre is known for taking credit for beats, as well as ghost-producing. I like to find a medium...."Aint No Fun" is considered a Dre beat, but peeps have claimed Warren did the beat. "Lets Play House" is considered a Daz beat, but Dre has been said to do more work on that beat than he did on "Aint No Fun"...In beats like these, I dont use credits to judge, because i know the credits never tell the full story. I use my ear. when I see "mixed by Dre" and the beat has a signature Dre sound, I will find a medium and assume that Dre had his hands on the production tip. In essence, Mel-Man produced "Still DRE" just as much as Khalil produced "Kush"...just listen to it urself. ears don't lie.

[Greenbrigade]

LOL at Nik strugglin to accept the fact Khalil produced Kush. Its there in black n white. Khalil, Storch, Neff-U ect have all worked under Dre at one point or another so is it really that difficult to grasp the fact they could easily make a Dre soundin beat.
I wouldnt be surprised when & if detox drops if the majority of beats aren't by Dre.

[Sccit]

LOL at Nik strugglin to accept the fact Khalil produced Kush. Its there in black n white. Khalil, Storch, Neff-U ect have all worked under Dre at one point or another so is it really that difficult to grasp the fact they could easily make a Dre soundin beat.
I wouldnt be surprised when & if detox drops if the majority of beats aren't by Dre.

did u read ANY of my posts? LOL. come on, man.

[bouli77]

LMAO...please do not tell me ur comparing Puffy to Dre. SMH.


Puffy does not have the ear for music that Dre has...he does not have the skill to perfect a sound the way Dre does. Dre owns a beat, he isn't satisfied until it sounds exactly how he pictures it in his mind. Puffy is NOTHING like this. the only similarity is that neither of 'em play their own instruments...that's where the comparison ends.

well actually both can be compared since both got embroiled in credit-stealing accusations... Puffy is notorious for taking other people's credit as he did with Easy Mo Bee for the Craig Mack album. but that's where the comparison ends, Puffy is nowhere near the skills of Dre. He is more of a R'N'B producer (and a tight one for that matter) than a rap producer.

I don't think a producer has to necessarily play an instrument. Musicians are generally good producers because it's easier for them to do a song from A to Z but some of the greatest producers don't or barely play an instrument. even Quincy Jones was said to be a lousy trumpeter. Most east coast producers don't play an instrument and even if they do a lot produce records without playing on them,  yet they're legends (Primo, Easy Mo Bee). It's really the West and the South that brought real musician/producers (Shorty B, Mike Dean, NO Joe, Khayree, K-Lou, Soopafly) and even they don't make up the majority of producers). at the end of the day those who are acknowledged as the best producers are not renowned for their musical prowess. producing is about vision. a technician whether a musician or an engineer or the one who mixes the record helps you take the song where you want it to be taken but the producer is the musical conductor. i think a lot of times, especially in hip hop which is really an amateur genre (meaning the line between professionals and amateurs is blurry due to the facts that the networking aspect is overwhelming, it's rather accessible for anybody and that it's a really free genre), the musicians/engineers etc. are really the producers and the beatmaker is really a beatmaker.

that's why i think the argument about Kush is interesting. I actually said the same thing as Nik when the record came out : Dre would have taken at least a co-production credit back in the 90's. maybe if Afro Puffs had come out in 2010, Daz would have been credited as the sole producer and Dre credited for the mixing. either way I do think that finally mixing and engineering a record is as important as beatmaking and producing even if, if i had to choose, i'd choose a poorly mixed record with great production than the other way round. for example : a lot of records by JT The Bigga Figga and Get Low are poorly mixed and mastered but the production/melody/beats (whether created by JT, G-Man Stan, Sean T or other collaborators) are usually so damn good that it gets a pass. on the other hand, a subpar Dre-like production with boring piano chords and a boring rapper but with a crisp and hard hitting sound sounds really redundant to my ears.

[D-Nice]

I find it funny most people associate Khalil with Dre, when he REALLY got his start with DJ Muggs and Soul Assassins and with Self Scientific.

Khalil ALWAYS been nice with the beats. Yeah his more recent stuff has a more Dre ish feel to it but working with Dre so much as he does will have that effect. But his recent work with Cypress, Em, SAS, and others as been diverse and straight fiyah.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

once again, if Dre didn't produce "Kush" then he didn't produce at least HALF of "2001"...u aint followin my logic, or u just dont get it?

You have no logic. Dre and Mel Man were the main producers on every song on 2001. On Kush he wasn't a producer period.

his track record speaks for itself...ask the hundreds of artists who have worked with dre and praised him as the greatest, they will tell u the same.

I have no doubt artists give Dre credit for the production he does. But in this case he hasn't produced anything of note for a while. No one's questioning his status as one of the greatest hip hop producers of all time. But right now he is definitely not one of the top producers. And you didn't answer the question. Find an original beat that was wack that Dre made into a classic.

Khalil's best SOUNDING beats are the ones Dre mixed. (I Made It, Could've Been You, Kush)

lmao not. Could've Been You sucks.

Lol @ how Dre gets all these props for mixing albums and the people who have mixed classic albums get ignored.

Puffy does not have the ear for music that Dre has...he does not have the skill to perfect a sound the way Dre does. Dre owns a beat, he isn't satisfied until it sounds exactly how he pictures it in his mind. Puffy is NOTHING like this. the only similarity is that neither of 'em play their own instruments...that's where the comparison ends.

He has produced the same amount of hits, if not more. Even Dre said his favorite beat was a Puffy production.

[Sccit]

LMAO...please do not tell me ur comparing Puffy to Dre. SMH.


Puffy does not have the ear for music that Dre has...he does not have the skill to perfect a sound the way Dre does. Dre owns a beat, he isn't satisfied until it sounds exactly how he pictures it in his mind. Puffy is NOTHING like this. the only similarity is that neither of 'em play their own instruments...that's where the comparison ends.

well actually both can be compared since both got embroiled in credit-stealing accusations... Puffy is notorious for taking other people's credit as he did with Easy Mo Bee for the Craig Mack album. but that's where the comparison ends, Puffy is nowhere near the skills of Dre. He is more of a R'N'B producer (and a tight one for that matter) than a rap producer.

I don't think a producer has to necessarily play an instrument. Musicians are generally good producers because it's easier for them to do a song from A to Z but some of the greatest producers don't or barely play an instrument. even Quincy Jones was said to be a lousy trumpeter. Most east coast producers don't play an instrument and even if they do a lot produce records without playing on them,  yet they're legends (Primo, Easy Mo Bee). It's really the West and the South that brought real musician/producers (Shorty B, Mike Dean, NO Joe, Khayree, K-Lou, Soopafly) and even they don't make up the majority of producers). at the end of the day those who are acknowledged as the best producers are not renowned for their musical prowess. producing is about vision. a technician whether a musician or an engineer or the one who mixes the record helps you take the song where you want it to be taken but the producer is the musical conductor. i think a lot of times, especially in hip hop which is really an amateur genre (meaning the line between professionals and amateurs is blurry due to the facts that the networking aspect is overwhelming, it's rather accessible for anybody and that it's a really free genre), the musicians/engineers etc. are really the producers and the beatmaker is really a beatmaker.

that's why i think the argument about Kush is interesting. I actually said the same thing as Nik when the record came out : Dre would have taken at least a co-production credit back in the 90's. maybe if Afro Puffs had come out in 2010, Daz would have been credited as the sole producer and Dre credited for the mixing. either way I do think that finally mixing and engineering a record is as important as beatmaking and producing even if, if i had to choose, i'd choose a poorly mixed record with great production than the other way round. for example : a lot of records by JT The Bigga Figga and Get Low are poorly mixed and mastered but the production/melody/beats (whether created by JT, G-Man Stan, Sean T or other collaborators) are usually so damn good that it gets a pass. on the other hand, a subpar Dre-like production with boring piano chords and a boring rapper but with a crisp and hard hitting sound sounds really redundant to my ears.

well said

[PLANT]

Dre is still the fucking man and when or if Detox ever drops everyone will think he is the greatest again.  Don't kid yourselves. 

[Sccit]

once again, if Dre didn't produce "Kush" then he didn't produce at least HALF of "2001"...u aint followin my logic, or u just dont get it?

You have no logic. Dre and Mel Man were the main producers on every song on 2001. On Kush he wasn't a producer period.

It's not that I have no logic, it's that u simply don't get my logic...My logic is that Dre has been accused of stealing beats for the longest. Most of the time, he doesn't create his own beats, he composes them. Nowadays, people act like whoever laid the beat deserves the production credit, where as Dre's defintion of a producer is the dude who composes the beat, layers it to perfection, and does most of the hard work on it. Now, that people like Daz, Scott Storch, Snoop etc. etc. have accused Dre of stealing beats, he has gotten with the "times" and decided to take mixing credit, as opposed to back in the day where he would slap his name under production credits, as well. Do u get what I'm saying? How is that illogical? Storch has accused Dre of stealing his beats, as have others. What they don't get is that Dre really did make that beat, whether they laid it out or not. Without Dre, that beat aint 1/10th as good as what it would be with him. Dre didn't wanna get into shit with Khalil, as he did with Storch and them back in the days, so he gave production credit to Khalil to avoid more shit-talking etc.. Make sense yet?

his track record speaks for itself...ask the hundreds of artists who have worked with dre and praised him as the greatest, they will tell u the same.

I have no doubt artists give Dre credit for the production he does. But in this case he hasn't produced anything of note for a while. No one's questioning his status as one of the greatest hip hop producers of all time. But right now he is definitely not one of the top producers. And you didn't answer the question. Find an original beat that was wack that Dre made into a classic.

Dre hasn't produced enough material lately to be judged...i havent heard him drop anything whack, so therefore my last memories of him are droppin dope beats. when he drops whack shit, then he has provided us with a legit reasoning to say he fell off. so far, nothing has been whack. Dre is still the greatest producer in hip-hop until he proves otherwise. and to answer ur question, every fucking beat that Dre co-produced is an example of him turning a whack/decent beat into a classic. Because u know for a fact that no matter how hard Mel-Man, or Scott Storch, or Daz, or any of those mufuckaz tried, NONE of 'em could produce a beat like they did with Dre guiding them through it. I guarantee you "Kush" is another example of this...without Dre, that beat is not half as good. Guaranteed.

Puffy does not have the ear for music that Dre has...he does not have the skill to perfect a sound the way Dre does. Dre owns a beat, he isn't satisfied until it sounds exactly how he pictures it in his mind. Puffy is NOTHING like this. the only similarity is that neither of 'em play their own instruments...that's where the comparison ends.

He has produced the same amount of hits, if not more. Even Dre said his favorite beat was a Puffy production.

LOL...there is no comparison between Puffy and Dre. Just stop.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

once again, if Dre didn't produce "Kush" then he didn't produce at least HALF of "2001"...u aint followin my logic, or u just dont get it?

You have no logic. Dre and Mel Man were the main producers on every song on 2001. On Kush he wasn't a producer period.

It's not that I have no logic, it's that u simply don't get my logic...My logic is that Dre has been accused of stealing beats for the longest. Most of the time, he doesn't create his own beats, he composes them. Nowadays, people act like whoever laid the beat deserves the production credit, where as Dre's defintion of a producer is the dude who composes the beat, layers it to perfection, and does most of the hard work on it. Now, that people like Daz, Scott Storch, Snoop etc. etc. have accused Dre of stealing beats, he has gotten with the "times" and decided to take mixing credit, as opposed to back in the day where he would slap his name under production credits, as well. Do u get what I'm saying? How is that illogical? Storch has accused Dre of stealing his beats, as have others. What they don't get is that Dre really did make that beat, whether they laid it out or not. Without Dre, that beat aint 1/10th as good as what it would be with him. Dre didn't wanna get into shit with Khalil, as he did with Storch and them back in the days, so he gave production credit to Khalil to avoid more shit-talking etc.. Make sense yet?

hahah, did Dre himself tell you this? Fanboy theorizing at its greatest.

Dre has received a couple production credits this year, so that kinda throws your fanboy theory out the window. And if your theory were true its even more of a knock on Dre's legacy. You're basically saying he didn't deserve to receive producer credits on any of his classic work. Which means he couldn't be one of the greatest hip hop producers of all time. 

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Dre hasn't produced enough material lately to be judged...i havent heard him drop anything whack, so therefore my last memories of him are droppin dope beats. when he drops whack shit, then he has provided us with a legit reasoning to say he fell off. so far, nothing has been whack. Dre is still the greatest producer in hip-hop until he proves otherwise. and to answer ur question, every fucking beat that Dre co-produced is an example of him turning a whack/decent beat into a classic. Because u know for a fact that no matter how hard Mel-Man, or Scott Storch, or Daz, or any of those mufuckaz tried, NONE of 'em could produce a beat like they did with Dre guiding them through it. I guarantee you "Kush" is another example of this...without Dre, that beat is not half as good. Guaranteed.

Mel Man I'd agree with. DJ Khalil has and does make great beats without Dre. And Scott Storch has made hits on his own.

LOL...there is no comparison between Puffy and Dre. Just stop.

Why not? Because you obviously have something against Puffy. The things you say Dre is responsible for and the things Puffy has been responsible for are one and the same. And Puffy has been making hits since 91.

[Sccit]

once again, if Dre didn't produce "Kush" then he didn't produce at least HALF of "2001"...u aint followin my logic, or u just dont get it?

You have no logic. Dre and Mel Man were the main producers on every song on 2001. On Kush he wasn't a producer period.

It's not that I have no logic, it's that u simply don't get my logic...My logic is that Dre has been accused of stealing beats for the longest. Most of the time, he doesn't create his own beats, he composes them. Nowadays, people act like whoever laid the beat deserves the production credit, where as Dre's defintion of a producer is the dude who composes the beat, layers it to perfection, and does most of the hard work on it. Now, that people like Daz, Scott Storch, Snoop etc. etc. have accused Dre of stealing beats, he has gotten with the "times" and decided to take mixing credit, as opposed to back in the day where he would slap his name under production credits, as well. Do u get what I'm saying? How is that illogical? Storch has accused Dre of stealing his beats, as have others. What they don't get is that Dre really did make that beat, whether they laid it out or not. Without Dre, that beat aint 1/10th as good as what it would be with him. Dre didn't wanna get into shit with Khalil, as he did with Storch and them back in the days, so he gave production credit to Khalil to avoid more shit-talking etc.. Make sense yet?

hahah, did Dre himself tell you this? Fanboy theorizing at its greatest.

Dre has received a couple production credits this year, so that kinda throws your fanboy theory out the window. And if your theory were true its even more of a knock on Dre's legacy. You're basically saying he didn't deserve to receive producer credits on any of his classic work. Which means he couldn't be one of the greatest hip hop producers of all time. 

point is, dre does a lot more for a beat than just create it...he composes it and maximizes its potential. thats what a true producer does. not many in the game can say they have the abilities of dre when it comes to actual production and not just beatmaking. basically, the definition of production has been lost over time...dre produced "kush" just as much as he produced the tracks on "2001"...but nowadays, the primary beatmaker wants full production credit, even though theres a whole lot more to producing than just laying out a beat.

[Sccit]

Dre hasn't produced enough material lately to be judged...i havent heard him drop anything whack, so therefore my last memories of him are droppin dope beats. when he drops whack shit, then he has provided us with a legit reasoning to say he fell off. so far, nothing has been whack. Dre is still the greatest producer in hip-hop until he proves otherwise. and to answer ur question, every fucking beat that Dre co-produced is an example of him turning a whack/decent beat into a classic. Because u know for a fact that no matter how hard Mel-Man, or Scott Storch, or Daz, or any of those mufuckaz tried, NONE of 'em could produce a beat like they did with Dre guiding them through it. I guarantee you "Kush" is another example of this...without Dre, that beat is not half as good. Guaranteed.

Mel Man I'd agree with. DJ Khalil has and does make great beats without Dre. And Scott Storch has made hits on his own.

LOL...there is no comparison between Puffy and Dre. Just stop.

Why not? Because you obviously have something against Puffy. The things you say Dre is responsible for and the things Puffy has been responsible for are one and the same. And Puffy has been making hits since 91.

LOL. the sound and quality of a Puffy production pales in comparison to Dre's....Scott Storch and Khalil have made dope beats, but nothin on the level of what they've done with Dre helping.

[I_ThePope_I]

Khalil's best SOUNDING beats are the ones Dre mixed. (I Made It, Could've Been You, Kush)

lmao not. Could've Been You sucks.

Lol @ how Dre gets all these props for mixing albums and the people who have mixed classic albums get ignored.

WTF? Have you heard that shit with a decent set-up?

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

point is, dre does a lot more for a beat than just create it...he composes it and maximizes its potential. thats what a true producer does. not many in the game can say they have the abilities of dre when it comes to actual production and not just beatmaking. basically, the definition of production has been lost over time...dre produced "kush" just as much as he produced the tracks on "2001"...but nowadays, the primary beatmaker wants full production credit, even though theres a whole lot more to producing than just laying out a beat.

Dre doesn't compose shit. A composer is the one who MAKES the music, genius. And Lol @ still talking about Kush. Guess what? Dre received ZERO production credit on Kush, hence he didn't produce it.

LOL. the sound and quality of a Puffy production pales in comparison to Dre's....Scott Storch and Khalil have made dope beats, but nothin on the level of what they've done with Dre helping.

I'd have to disagree considering how many bonefide hit singles Puffy has made. And Khalil's best songs were made without Dre. Kush ain't even close to his best song.