Ghostwriting in HipHop

[WestSideDon]

I know this topic isn't that new to most people who have dealt with hiphop for a bit longer but I'd still like to have a little discussion about it. While listening to some old songs from the albums "Tha Doggfather and "Top Dogg", looking in the booklet, I noticed that some of the songs were actually written by someone else (So technically it's not really ghostwriting, considering the writers are credited and on "Top Dogg" there is a special thanks to the 2 writers who wrote the 2 songs but weren't solely credited). So I want to know what you think about the whole Ghostwriting/Writing verses for others/Co-Writer situation! Do you think it's ok to do it sometimes ? Or are you strictly against it ? Which rappers you know have done it or are still doing it from time to time ? Which songs you know were ghostwritten ? etc. etc.
Personally I think Ghostwriting is wack, but I also think almost every rapper who has been in the game for a longer time and still is has done it somewhere in his career or still does it at times.

[HighEyeCue]

it is accepted alot in pop music that songs are not written by the singer but in hip hop it doesn't fly somehow...as far as rappers who have used writers there there are many that are alleged
Off the top of my head

Kurupt for Daz
Crooked I for Kurupt
Nas for Will Smith
Gza,Rza for ODB
Cassidy for Eve
Jayz for Foxy
Biggie for Lil Kim

even Nas was rumored to have Jay Electronica rhymes on his last album

[WestSideDon]

There were rumors that jay electronica and stic.man from dead prez wrote the majority of the untitled album.
Nas denied it, but many still think it's true, I can also imagine that..

[bouli77]

it is accepted alot in pop music that songs are not written by the singer but in hip hop it doesn't fly somehow...as far as rappers who have used writers there there are many that are alleged
Off the top of my head

Kurupt for Daz
Crooked I for Kurupt
Nas for Will Smith
Gza,Rza for ODB
Cassidy for Eve
Jayz for Foxy


Biggie for Lil Kim

even Nas was rumored to have Jay Electronica rhymes on his last album

it's a big thing in hip-hop because in hip-hop you're expected to be original and be the best. hip hop is a competitive artform where ego and individualism plays a great part, invidual performance is preferred and rarely is a team effort acknowledged (that's why you get so many GOATs discussions with rappers and endless debate about the definition of producers), so when you rap you don't represent your label or your producer but first and foremost yourself, you have to deliver the goods so that you can reach a particular status and beat your competition whether it is real (as in a rap battle) or fathomed (so called haters or the rest of the industry, etc.). what's more, even though you have an alias, you're supposed to rap about real life, and tell your own story, and that's why so-called authenticity is so important. so if you drop a jaw-dropping song where you showcase your incredible skills, of course it's not gonna fly if we later learn that you didn't actually write it.

also, in rap the content is sometimes as important, if not more, than the form itself. in other genres the lines aren't as blurred, if you're a singer you're expected to hit the right notes, but you may need a potent songwriter and also need a composer, a producer, etc.. in rap, which is a more amateurish artform by essence (and I mean amateurish not as a slight, but as an accurate description of rap : it's not as codified as singing, and the vast majority of rappers pick it up on their own and are self-taught and do not need academic, formal training), you're tacitly supposed to handle both the writing and the rapping and sometimes the production, otherwise you're not credible. that's why Dre, Eazy E and Puffy among others are commandable, because from the get go they acknowledged that they didn't write their songs and got away with it)

that's like in book writing, your book is partly judged on the quality of your writing, so if it turns out you're not the actual writer, of course it's gonna cause backlash

to get back to known (ghost)writers for rappers you also got

Bad Azz for Warren G & Snoop
Tray Deee for Snoop
Kurupt for Soopafly


and there's also been controversy about ghostwriters who have let it be known that they ghostwrote for famous artists, because part of the ghostwriting duty is to play your part and respect the customer's confidentiality lol,

there are sites where you can hire ghostwriters, lol

http://www.precisionwrittens.com/rap-ghostwriters-for-hire/

[WestSideDon]

Of course after like 10 years in the game, it's not that easy to come up with fresh lyrics and groundbreaking topics to maintain your status, but ghostwriting is still just wack. Also its not making it that much better if the writer is credited, or theres a co-writer the fact remains that the rapper didnt write his own stuff or at least not all of it. For example i'm again bringing up the 2 songs on "top dogg" which were ghostwritten (Or let's say part-ghostwritten), it's just dissappointing. If snoop didn't have a good verse at this time he shouldve just gave the instrumentals to bad azz and tray deee or try writing a good verse a few days later. Or if theres no other way, just feature them on the songs and let them do the major part of the song.   It just seems a bit lazy...




PS:
Didn't know Bad Azz wrote for Warren G.
Any particular song where he did it ?

 

[Black Excellence]

it depends. i can respect it if there's a co writer to assist but, to have your whole song penned by someone else is different. i always gave eazy-e a pass cause he didn't aspire to be a rapper he was pushed to do it and got good at it. he was also able to write some of his rhymes though.

[Jimmy H.]

Eazy-E, Dr. Dre, Puff Daddy, I would give a pass to it because they aren't rappers. Will Smith too. People like Snoop or Cube or Nas would be a little harder but Snoop freely admits not writing much anymore on his latest albums.

[Hack Wilson - real]

Eazy-E, Dr. Dre, Puff Daddy, I would give a pass to it because they aren't rappers. Will Smith too. People like Snoop or Cube or Nas would be a little harder but Snoop freely admits not writing much anymore on his latest albums.

Big Daddy Kane wrote for Biz Marke
Crooked I wrote for Kurupt
Nas wrote for Will Smith

[Chamillitary Click]

I'd be so disappointed in Nas if that Jay Elec shit is true.

[Okka]

Kurupt for Soopafly

I doubt that's true. Where did you get that from?

Snoop has used ghostwriters for a long time. For example, Snoop didn't write his verse on "Lay Low", Xzibit did that. He didn't get credited on the booklet though. Snoop has written for other artists in the past too though, "Niggaz Don't Give A Fuck" from the "Poetic Justice" OST was originally his song, but he gave it to Daz and Kurupt.

[Black Excellence]

I'd be so disappointed in Nas if that Jay Elec shit is true.

[Hack Wilson - real]

Kurupt for Soopafly

I doubt that's true. Where did you get that from?

Snoop has used ghostwriters for a long time. For example, Snoop didn't write his verse on "Lay Low", Xzibit did that. He didn't get credited on the booklet though. Snoop has written for other artists in the past too though, "Niggaz Don't Give A Fuck" from the "Poetic Justice" OST was originally his song, but he gave it to Daz and Kurupt.

yeah, Soopafly may have pimp slapped Kurupt and taken his rhyme book but I doubt he'd ask another man to write his rhymes for him

[HighEyeCue]

pretty sure the Crooked Kurupt one had to be in the Against the Grain days

[Hack Wilson - real]

Pretty sure Nas wrote most of Foxy Brown's verses

[HighEyeCue]

Pretty sure Nas wrote most of Foxy Brown's verses

Jay wrote half of Foxy's songs on her debut