Did illegal internet downloading lead to the death of hip-hop?

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

It is no coincedence that Hip-hop died in 2001, which also happened to be the year that internet downloading hit it's peak.  Now everyone is getting albums and songs for free.

This may not ruin Eminem's financial carear, but it has lead to the demise of hip-hop.  Want proof?  An artist signed to a major record label generally has to sell 300,000 copies of an album to turn a profit.  Many classic records like Xzibit's "40 Days and 40 Nights" Mos Def's "Black on Both Sides" Talib Kweli's "Train of Thought" and Ras Kass "Rassasination" only came around or near the 300,000 albums sold mark.  Many of the most talented, creative, and daring artists, sell just under gold, barely turning a profit.  And this was back in the 90's, before internet downloading destroyed the industry.

Now that internet downloading is so prevelent, you see artists like Ras Kass being dropped from their label cause they can no longer turn a profit. 

RIP Hip-Hop music.... we will forever mourn the loss of your life.  We feel the pain and the giult for contributing to your death and demise through illegal internet downloading, although the extra money did help me to cop some food when I was starving.   RIP Hip-Hop.

[Leggy Hendrix]

 

[7even]

if it wasnt for illegal leeching, many people wouldnt even know what Ras Kass, Talib Kweli etc sound like. This way, way more people listen to their Albums. So there can be more people who like em so much that they even buy their respective Albums...
however that's just one side of the medal.

[Danté Williams]

It would be dead if those records you mentioned (and many MANY others) were not made anymore. It does not matter if it sells or not. You like, you buy em. And that's hiphop. Gangstarr, Quik, E-40, Warren, Kweli... not Nelly, Eminem, Lil Jon or Diddy.

[On The Edge of Insanity]

if it wasnt for illegal leeching, many people wouldnt even know what Ras Kass, Talib Kweli etc sound like. This way, way more people listen to their Albums. So there can be more people who like em so much that they even buy their respective Albums...
however that's just one side of the medal.

Its a good point you make, and what people must also realise is that artists usually make a lot more money going on tour than they actually do from album sales. So if people have heard their albums through downloading them off the internet and like them, they are likely to go see them live when they come round their area, which in the end leads to profit for the artist anyway.

Oh, and co-sign on banning this dude, every single thread he goes on about the death of hiphop.

[Kill]

if it wasnt for illegal leeching, many people wouldnt even know what Ras Kass, Talib Kweli etc sound like. This way, way more people listen to their Albums. So there can be more people who like em so much that they even buy their respective Albums...
however that's just one side of the medal.

Its a good point you make, and what people must also realise is that artists usually make a lot more money going on tour than they actually do from album sales. So if people have heard their albums through downloading them off the internet and like them, they are likely to go see them live when they come round their area, which in the end leads to profit for the artist anyway.

Oh, and co-sign on banning this dude, every single thread he goes on about the death of hiphop.

this kid is a joke, word. don't have to ban him yet i think, but if he keeps goin like that maybe, or i'ma just lock some of his rather stupid topics. and co-sign on the points of knowing and hearing much more music and many new artists through the internet and going on their tours. both of that is true ande often overlooked, especially by CEO's who only make money off CDs sold

[NobodyButMe]

i don't get wtf the deal is with people getting their panties in a bunch over downloading music. true, some people take advantage of it, but the record industry has been ripping off the consumer AND the artist since day one. FUCK the record companies. we found the power to change the structure of the record companies and we changed it. you think if the downloading generation didn't happen we'd still be able to buy new talib kweli cds for $8.99? HELL NO. cd prices were getting out of control before the downloading generation and it has allowed some sort of control on the greed these record companies generate.

as for your question, the death of hip hop lies in the hands of the artists, not the fans. sure, record execs can heavily influence an album, but it's the artists responsibility to handle their own music on their own vibe.

[Jome]

Record companies are to blame.
For years, consumers had to put up with overpriced bullshit albums just to hear those 2-3 tracks you liked.
Now that the power is in the hands of the consumers, record companies & RIAA SUES their own customers to try make downloading music illegal/impossible.
Their scratching their heads to come up with ways to stop the LEGIT customers as well, using copy controls to stop customers from listening to their purchased CD's in the car, computer, or copy to their mp3-player.. the bootleggers laughs in their face for every copy control system they come up with.

It's too late to do anything about downloading, so record companies have to be clever with it.
Just look at Interscope, with their "special editions", bonus DVD's, bonus tracks, contests to meet Eminem, contest to win a G-Unit piece worth thousands of $$$, spreading rumours about "new added tracks because of downloading", pushing the release forward, etc.
Most of their albums go multi-plat, and I think that much of this is because of their strategy when it comes to bootleggers, it's not only their PRomo budget.

[Dominator]

if anything is contributing to the "death" of hip hop, i'd say it's the direction most artists (or at least "commercial" artists) are taking these days..

watch any music video program and note down any songs that have substance.. (by substance, i mean any track about something other than "show me how you shake your ass, girl" or "i'mma kill a motherfucker in a second.." or "look at my cash, cars, crib" etc.) .. it's all bullshit..

listen to Ice Cube - The Predator or any Ice-T / Public Enemy album, then start up a playlist of anything that's come out in the past 3 years or so.. it can't compare..

but i can't see that changing in a hurry..

as far as the whole downloading issue goes.. cds are now AUD $20 instead of $30 .. so i'm happy..

[Trauma-san]

The argument of illegal downloading an entire fucking RETAIL album weeks before it's available is "Promotion" is wrong as fuck.  MP3's helped kill them, yeah, I think so, but generally modern rap sucks dick compared to the stuff from the early 90's.  If you go back even farther, even marginally talented rappers like Flava Flav and Biz Markee are probably twice as entertaining as even the best artists out today.  Also, rap hasn't done hardly ANYTHING new since it's inception, which is rare in musical genre's, look how rock evolved (and eventually died, in my opinion).  There's nothing new and exciting about rap, and more and more and more songs are following the same exact formulas for a hit anymore.  The last major 'revolution' in rap music was ushered in by Dr. Dre 10 years or so ago, when he started doing more than just lifting beats off R&B songs, and fully producing music... that trend continued until today when most artists use original beats instead of samples, but creatively speaking, not much else has changed or evolved or become more creative.

As for the mp3's, people buy albums they've heard, after they fall in love with them.  People used to just guess what albums to buy, now they download them all, and buy the ones they love.  So, if the quality of the music was high enough, more people would buy the albums.  Essentially the only sales they have lost (which is a fucking CONSIDERABLE number, I'd guess sales are halfed, basically) are the sales they would have 'tricked' or conned out of people... but even with that, you've still got great albums like Eminem's being bootlegged to death on the net and at Flea Markets.  Your "Promotion" idea doesn't hold water, because a good album like Em's doesn't turn every download into a sale, people would just rather bootleg it.  Your next argument is going to be "Em has enough money" but that's bullshit in a capitalist society.  Em does NOT have enough money, he deserves every dime he can earn, and these people are stealing from him.  I'm not gonna cry about it, but wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong, nomatter what the circumstances.

[Shallow]

  Also, rap hasn't done hardly ANYTHING new since it's inception, which is rare in musical genre's, look how rock evolved (and eventually died, in my opinion). 

Rap is Rock. Bubblegum pop is Rock. Punk is Rock. Metal is Rock. RnB was Rock before Rock, so that's Rock too. Everything is Rock, except Country, Folk, Blues, Jazz, and Classical (there might be more I can't remember). You are right about Rap not changing much though. I don't expect anything new to music since that would be difficult, but at least something different on a grand scale, like blues hip hop, or folk hip hop. There has already been metal hip hop, I guess that counts as evolving, even though it dates as far back as the Beasties and a couple Run DMC songs.

I don't think Rock (the one you were reffering to) died. The White Strips released some good albums. Lenny had a few good noes not too long ago. RHCP had two great ones in the last several years.

 

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

The argument of illegal downloading an entire fucking RETAIL album weeks before it's available is "Promotion" is wrong as fuck.  MP3's helped kill them, yeah, I think so, but generally modern rap sucks dick compared to the stuff from the early 90's.  If you go back even farther, even marginally talented rappers like Flava Flav and Biz Markee are probably twice as entertaining as even the best artists out today.  Also, rap hasn't done hardly ANYTHING new since it's inception, which is rare in musical genre's, look how rock evolved (and eventually died, in my opinion).  There's nothing new and exciting about rap, and more and more and more songs are following the same exact formulas for a hit anymore.  The last major 'revolution' in rap music was ushered in by Dr. Dre 10 years or so ago, when he started doing more than just lifting beats off R&B songs, and fully producing music... that trend continued until today when most artists use original beats instead of samples, but creatively speaking, not much else has changed or evolved or become more creative.

As for the mp3's, people buy albums they've heard, after they fall in love with them.  People used to just guess what albums to buy, now they download them all, and buy the ones they love.  So, if the quality of the music was high enough, more people would buy the albums.  Essentially the only sales they have lost (which is a fucking CONSIDERABLE number, I'd guess sales are halfed, basically) are the sales they would have 'tricked' or conned out of people... but even with that, you've still got great albums like Eminem's being bootlegged to death on the net and at Flea Markets.  Your "Promotion" idea doesn't hold water, because a good album like Em's doesn't turn every download into a sale, people would just rather bootleg it.  Your next argument is going to be "Em has enough money" but that's bullshit in a capitalist society.  Em does NOT have enough money, he deserves every dime he can earn, and these people are stealing from him.  I'm not gonna cry about it, but wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong, nomatter what the circumstances.

Nevermind Eminem, he'll get his money regardless, although like you said, he deserves every dime, it's not those triple platinum artists that really suffer from internet pirating....

It's the artists who sell around 300,000 copies that suffer, it's Talib Kweli, it's Mos Def, it's Cannibus, it's Slum Village, [/i]word up, props and respects to all those artists, becuase if they haven't already, they are about to get dropped from their labels, and for all the West Coast heads up in hear, let me name a few casualties of the West Coast... Nate Dogg, Warren G, DJ Quik, Knocturnal, Kurupt, Ras Kass[/i].... These cats are all gonna get dropped, I hope they got the phone number for Koch Records... cause even Rawkus Records can't afford any of these cats anymore....  Maybe hip-hop died the day Rawkus went bankrupt.....

Part of the reason records are so wack is because they have to cave to industry pressures to get their album out![/i]

RIP Hip-Hop music... and the biggest giulty party of all is the college campus's.... these kids sit around all day and download music in between campus, most of them don't have jobs, just go to a few classes, and sit in their dorm rooms and frat houses all day and download music.  So the college music scene is a dead one unless your going to do shows and concerts.

Like Eminem said...

"HIP-HOP IS IN A STATE OF 9-11"

I

[C-Swift]

if anything is contributing to the "death" of hip hop, i'd say it's the direction most artists (or at least "commercial" artists) are taking these days..

watch any music video program and note down any songs that have substance.. (by substance, i mean any track about something other than "show me how you shake your ass, girl" or "i'mma kill a motherfucker in a second.." or "look at my cash, cars, crib" etc.) .. it's all bullshit..

listen to Ice Cube - The Predator or any Ice-T / Public Enemy album, then start up a playlist of anything that's come out in the past 3 years or so.. it can't compare..

but i can't see that changing in a hurry..

as far as the whole downloading issue goes.. cds are now AUD $20 instead of $30 .. so i'm happy..

The fact that lots of today's hip-hop has no substance is what is contributing to hip-hop's death, I'm sick of cats rapping about who they killed or are gonna kill, who they gonna make shake their ass in the club, it's through at least in my view.

[I`m Wayne Brady bitch!]

^^ mainstream rap , yeas . The mainstream now is DEAD , and nobody can argue with that . But you still got real MC`s that can rock out there . Chino XL , Rass Kass , Royce da 5`9 , Canibus , Ill Bill are all lyricists that got a comercial apeal ( by that I mean that with the right promotion and cash they can blow up , and possibly change or set the standard for comercial rap music ) . And for whoever said that hip hop aint creative no more musical-wise... well ... in 2004 you cant re-invent the wheel , everything has been done in all genres of music by this time . And we need new record companys with cash in their pockets ( with  CEO`s that KNOW HIP HOP music ) so some of the lyricists ( that we fans of good hip hop music know )  can be revealed to the mainstream and change this fucking ass-shaking - i`m so in love with my boo - over corny ass synth beats crap .
Maybe this is just a dream , but if something like that dont go down , then comercial rap music will do like rock music and die .

[Bramsterdam (see ya)]

if it wasnt for illegal leeching, many people wouldnt even know what Ras Kass, Talib Kweli etc sound like. This way, way more people listen to their Albums. So there can be more people who like em so much that they even buy their respective Albums...
however that's just one side of the medal.

I agree with you here, thats what I do alot, download the album-like it, then I go out and buy it. Downloading music is kind of what got me into all the artists I love now, like Madlib even, and Tash, and some others. I downloaded a few tracks, and decided to go buy their albums. So if you're a true music fan I guess, you'd go buy the cd.  Its also not a bad idea too to download some music, to find out if you're going to like them or not, you dont just want to go out and buy the cd after hearing one single.  props to the ones who posted their thoughts about this