this guy says tupac, jay z, are the most overrated rappers ever. Agree?

[Machiavelli]

Pac is the best rapper because hes real. He probably wasnt the best lyricst but was the best "Rap Artist" as a whole.

[Shallow]

storytelling? only actual storytelling track i remember he ever doing was tear drops and closed caskets. cant really rate off one song
hes the most improved lyrical rapper from the begining of his career to the end. nursery rhymes to very good in makaveli.

"Brenda's Got A Baby" was a story. One of the best one's I heard in rap.

[smartass]

storytelling? only actual storytelling track i remember he ever doing was tear drops and closed caskets. cant really rate off one song
hes the most improved lyrical rapper from the begining of his career to the end. nursery rhymes to very good in makaveli.

"Brenda's Got A Baby" was a story. One of the best one's I heard in rap.

good point. i forgot about alot of them, like trapped(should this even be counted, since he didnt write it?), shorty wanna be a thug, wonda why they call you bitch, open fire, etc
i havent listened to a 2pac album in years.

[I`m Wayne Brady bitch!]

I can name a shitload of mc`s with better flow , lyrics , use of voice than 2pac .. But 2pac was a attention drawer , and had charisma , that I`ll give him . But greatest of all time ? Please ...

[Shallow]

storytelling? only actual storytelling track i remember he ever doing was tear drops and closed caskets. cant really rate off one song
hes the most improved lyrical rapper from the begining of his career to the end. nursery rhymes to very good in makaveli.

"Brenda's Got A Baby" was a story. One of the best one's I heard in rap.

good point. i forgot about alot of them, like trapped(should this even be counted, since he didnt write it?), shorty wanna be a thug, wonda why they call you bitch, open fire, etc
i havent listened to a 2pac album in years.

who wrote Trapped?

[Machiavelli]

[

who wrote Trapped?

Shock G?

[smartass]

shock g said that ray luv wrote trapped, and 2pac recorded it because he was in jail.

[Leggy Hendrix]

jay-z isnt overrated at all.
lyricist? great
wordplay? one of the best to ever do it. name me one song where jay doesnt have at least 2 or 3 hot lines
flow? one of the best ever. only people who come to mind above him are treach and biggie, possibly percee p and masta ace. he innovated with the black album. plenty of people trying to use his flows...lil wayne being the most obvious
mic presence? good
delivery? good
discography? very good, and consistent. reasonable doubt? one of the most lyrical albums ever. everytime you listen to that album you can find find a new double/triple meaning in it. the multis on that album were crazy. blueprint is a classic. every other one of his albums is a 3.5 or above, except vol 2, which was trash.
storytelling? good
he can appeal to the underground, while selling tons of records
he can freestyle out the ass
whether people want to admit it or not, jay>big

2pac is overrated in the sense that people think he is god. alot of people think he is goat, i say maybe top 20.
lyricist? average.
flow? it was ok. he rarely ever switched it up, and when he did, it wasnt good.
wordplay? never really used it. when he did? average.
mic presence? one of the best ever. hes up there with cube and krs. when he got on the mic, you knew exactly who it was. people say cube sounded angry? 2pac sounded like he was about to shoot shit up in the studio
delivery? above average.
discography? this is where 2pac shined. one undeniable classic, me against the world, 2 so called classics in makaveli and all eyez on me. has one dope group album with thuglife. strictly 4 my niggaz was a 3.5-4 mic album. 2pacalypse now wasnt that good of a debut, but certainly not the worst. i think hes the only rapper where every album he released, it got better. i believe this category is why some people consider him goat.
ok freestyler, nothing to brag about
storytelling? only actual storytelling track i remember he ever doing was tear drops and closed caskets. cant really rate off one song
hes the most improved lyrical rapper from the begining of his career to the end. nursery rhymes to very good in makaveli.

snoop dogg is the most overrated rapper of all time imo


kurupt killed him every time he got on the mic(much like he did 2pac 2 or 3 times)

i pretty much agree with everything u said...

Jay-Z>BIG>2Pac imo...

[M Dogg™]

I don't consider 'Pac overrated. The thing with 'Pac was that not one thing ever stood out with him, but his message. But in ever catagory, his top 5 in each.

Flow/Delivery - Snoop, Biggie, they may have had a better flow, but 'Pac's flow was more strong, he spit his heart in each word he said. I can't think of a song 'Pac did that I didn't think, man 'Pac ripped that shit. His whole Makaveli CD might have been his best flow, but Strickly For My N.I.G.G.A.Z. had his flow on point as well.

Storytelling - Brenda's Gotta Baby, Part Time Mutha, Wonder Why They Call You Bitch, Me and My Girlfriend, the man was one of the best storytellers ever. Slick Rick and Ice Cube maybe better, but 'Pac could tell a story with the best of them.

Message - Ok, his message was the deepest of any rapper, no arguments there.

Word Play - Listen to Bomb First (My Second Reply), in fact, half of Makaveli, and half of All Eyez On Me. His Death Row stuff was full of great word play. He released his best word play alive, so now we are in his unrelease music, it's not as good as the stuff he made to be put out. Will never be mistaken for Rakim, or Nas, but he can hold his own.

Discography - IMO, the best ever. Me Against the World is classic, so is Makaveli. All Eyez On Me is considered a classic by most, Stricky For My N.I.G.G.A.Z. is a very good album, 2Pacolypes is very nice, Thug Life, all of his CDs well he was alive are great, and R U Still Down and 2Pac + The Outlawz were both great CDs that had very little remixing.

Everything put together is a nice package. I think his the best that ever did it, because he wasn't weak in any one area, even though he was not the best. Like in football, just because you have Mike Vick, don't not mean you'll win the Super Bowl, the whole team has to be good. The greatest rapper of all time, hands down. Others come close, but his discography, his message, and his storytelling pull him above everyone else.

Jay-Z, Nas is the best rapper alive, not Jay-Z, do he overrates himself. I don't think his in the top 5 overrated though, because he an be argued best rapper alive.

top 5 overrated to me.

5. LL Cool J, great career, but is not the GOAT. Sorry.
4. Snoop Dogg - listen to Doggystlye, listen to the lyrics, they are not as good as people think. Yes Snoop is the king of the west, but he ain't dropped a classic verse since Chronic. Influnce, yes, real skills, no.
3. Eminem - I hate to say it, but his old shit was raw, but ever since the Sim Shady EP, his used gimmicks, not his skill to attract attention. And he has skill for days, but rearly allows it to show.
2. Slug - OK, I know heads love this man, but I can't stand him or Atmosphere. They rap about nothing, and their skills are wasted on so very strange rap.
1. Canibus - can't drop an album to match his never meet potential

[Glendale]

jay-z is the most overrated rapper alive. hes decent and thats it.
lyricist? Decent
wordplay? one of the best to ever do it? lol not even close
flow? one of the best ever. only people who come to mind above him are treach and biggie...HAHA not even one of the best ever, his flow is what makes him average and a lot of times below. all his old albums are boring with the exceptiopn or RD n BP, and his flow is boring. he sounds the same EVERY song, he cant flow fast, slow, he barely changes it up. and his flow on a lot of songs cant even ride the beat right. 2pac biggie and treach masta ace all ride the beat better than him and have voices and flow i can tolerate.
mic presence? lil above average, went to the Hard knock life tour or whatever couple years back w/ dmx. not bad
delivery? HORRIBLE, voice is the same every song, as i said above, u ppl think hes a god when he isnt anything. cant even ride beats..
discography? consistant i agree, reasonable doubt, blue print are his only two above average albums. black album is wayyy overrated. why uthink u can put his vocals over beatles beat like the grey album did? because he doesnt speed up, slow it up, or change the delivery at all. just stays the same boring flow.
storytelling? average
im an underground head with alot of backpackers as well, all of us agree he has got to be the most overrated.
he can freestyle lil above average, i rather listen to that shit than a lot of his songs.
whether people want to admit it or not, pac>big>em>nas>SLUG>fuckin tons of others>jayz & snoop.... both OVERRATED, enuff said

[Don Breezio]

2pac, snoop dogg, and 50 cent are the most overrated rappers....

2pac because people worship him like he is some sort of a god....he was good but he wasnt the goat

snoop because....well he's wack

and 50 cent because....well he's wack (though i do like his music....lyrically he is nothing special)

[Drudge]

I don't consider 'Pac overrated. The thing with 'Pac was that not one thing ever stood out with him, but his message. But in ever catagory, his top 5 in each.

Flow/Delivery - Snoop, Biggie, they may have had a better flow, but 'Pac's flow was more strong, he spit his heart in each word he said. I can't think of a song 'Pac did that I didn't think, man 'Pac ripped that shit. His whole Makaveli CD might have been his best flow, but Strickly For My N.I.G.G.A.Z. had his flow on point as well.

Storytelling - Brenda's Gotta Baby, Part Time Mutha, Wonder Why They Call You Bitch, Me and My Girlfriend, the man was one of the best storytellers ever. Slick Rick and Ice Cube maybe better, but 'Pac could tell a story with the best of them.

Message - Ok, his message was the deepest of any rapper, no arguments there.

Word Play - Listen to Bomb First (My Second Reply), in fact, half of Makaveli, and half of All Eyez On Me. His Death Row stuff was full of great word play. He released his best word play alive, so now we are in his unrelease music, it's not as good as the stuff he made to be put out. Will never be mistaken for Rakim, or Nas, but he can hold his own.

Discography - IMO, the best ever. Me Against the World is classic, so is Makaveli. All Eyez On Me is considered a classic by most, Stricky For My N.I.G.G.A.Z. is a very good album, 2Pacolypes is very nice, Thug Life, all of his CDs well he was alive are great, and R U Still Down and 2Pac + The Outlawz were both great CDs that had very little remixing.

Everything put together is a nice package. I think his the best that ever did it, because he wasn't weak in any one area, even though he was not the best. Like in football, just because you have Mike Vick, don't not mean you'll win the Super Bowl, the whole team has to be good. The greatest rapper of all time, hands down. Others come close, but his discography, his message, and his storytelling pull him above everyone else.

Jay-Z, Nas is the best rapper alive, not Jay-Z, do he overrates himself. I don't think his in the top 5 overrated though, because he an be argued best rapper alive.

top 5 overrated to me.

5. LL Cool J, great career, but is not the GOAT. Sorry.
4. Snoop Dogg - listen to Doggystlye, listen to the lyrics, they are not as good as people think. Yes Snoop is the king of the west, but he ain't dropped a classic verse since Chronic. Influnce, yes, real skills, no.
3. Eminem - I hate to say it, but his old shit was raw, but ever since the Sim Shady EP, his used gimmicks, not his skill to attract attention. And he has skill for days, but rearly allows it to show.
2. Slug - OK, I know heads love this man, but I can't stand him or Atmosphere. They rap about nothing, and their skills are wasted on so very strange rap.
1. Canibus - can't drop an album to match his never meet potential

Jay-Z, Nas is the best rapper alive, not Jay-Z, do he overrates himself. I don't think his in the top 5 overrated though, because he an be argued best rapper alive.

Nas maybe one of the best Mc's but BIG L and Chino XL are better.

Big L raps

Yo, I'm straight loco, to hell with you and your broke hoe
You ain't a big dog, you more like Toto, you got no dough
I smoke 'dro mixed with cocoa, strong as bolo
I pack a fo'-fo', platinum ro-ro
Anti-homo, that's a no-no so @#%$ po'-po'
I push the seven-fo'-oh and not the Volvo
C-Town push the six-oh-oh, I'm with a bitch on dolo
Chips from here to Acapulco
- Big L "Platinum Plus"

Battles I lose none I make crews run
I get fools done, got ten fingers but only use one
My run is like Machine Gun Kelly, with a black skully
Put one in your belly, leave you smelly, then take your Pelle Pelle
I'm the neighborhood lampor, punani vamper, mess around you'll find
My silkboxers in your mommy's hamper
And nowadays girls want you for your money
I'm like Hev, I got nothing but love for you honey
And yes I'm living slick and my pockets are thick
I need surgery to get chicks removed from my (chill)
I'm coming straight out the N.Y.C., raps my J.O.B., and I'm M.V.P.
Big L - "MVP"

[smartass]

jay-z is the most overrated rapper alive. hes decent and thats it.
lyricist? Decent
wordplay? one of the best to ever do it? lol not even close
flow? one of the best ever. only people who come to mind above him are treach and biggie...HAHA not even one of the best ever, his flow is what makes him average and a lot of times below. all his old albums are boring with the exceptiopn or RD n BP, and his flow is boring. he sounds the same EVERY song, he cant flow fast, slow, he barely changes it up. and his flow on a lot of songs cant even ride the beat right. 2pac biggie and treach masta ace all ride the beat better than him and have voices and flow i can tolerate.
mic presence? lil above average, went to the Hard knock life tour or whatever couple years back w/ dmx. not bad
delivery? HORRIBLE, voice is the same every song, as i said above, u ppl think hes a god when he isnt anything. cant even ride beats..
discography? consistant i agree, reasonable doubt, blue print are his only two above average albums. black album is wayyy overrated. why uthink u can put his vocals over beatles beat like the grey album did? because he doesnt speed up, slow it up, or change the delivery at all. just stays the same boring flow.
storytelling? average
im an underground head with alot of backpackers as well, all of us agree he has got to be the most overrated.
he can freestyle lil above average, i rather listen to that shit than a lot of his songs.
whether people want to admit it or not, pac>big>em>nas>SLUG>fuckin tons of others>jayz & snoop.... both OVERRATED, enuff said

" my mind is infested, with sick thoughts that circle like a Lexus, if driven wrong it's sure to hurt you Dual level like duplexes, in unity, my crew and me commit atrocities like we got immunity You guessed it, manifest it in tangible goods Platinum Rolexed it, we don't lease we buy the whole car, as you should My confederation, dead a nation, EXPLODE on detonation, overload the mind of a said patient When it balls to steam, it comes to it we all fiends gotta do it, even righteous minds go through this True this, history school us to spend our money foolish Bond with jewellers and, watch for intruders I stepped it up another level, meditated like a buddhist Recruited lieutenants with ludicrous, dreams of gettin cream let's do this, against T-D-S So I keep one eye open like, C-B-S, ya see me stressed right? Can I live?" thats hardly just "decent", and he has plenty of verses superior to that.

wordplay? niggas dont get the picture till the weapons is drawn. my shit is butter, for the bread they wanna toast me. you draw, better be picasso, you know the best
cause if this is not so, ah, god bless. At your wake as I peak in, look in your casket
feelin sarcastic, "Look at him, still sleepin". Nine to five is how to survive, I ain't trying to survive I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot. We used to fight for building blocks Now we fight for blocks with buildings that make a killing . And even if Jehovah witness, bet he'll never testify. My hand around her collar, feeding her cheese She said the taste of dollars was shitty so I fed her fifties About his whereabouts I wasn't convinced So I kept feeding her money 'til her shit started to make sense. My pops knew exactly what he did when he made me Tried to get a nut and he got a nut and what. For nine six, the only MC with a flu Yeah I rhyme sick, I be what you're tryin to do. Transactions illegitimate cause life is still a bitch And then you die but for now life close your eyes and feel this dick. those are just some, and thats only from one album. jay mastered every form of it. not even close? yeah, sure. i dont even have to mention the crazy punches, that hes got for days...

flow? you say he never switched it up? well, thats a lie, cause when he first came out, before he even put out his first album, he used to flow like the fu-shickens. on that fast, toungue twisting tip. you must've never heard can i git open, in my lifetime original, cant get wit that, or da graveyard? then once he hit reasonable doubt he slowed his flow down and he sped it up on certain tracks like coming of age. on volume 2 he speeds his flow up on  nigga what, nigga who, and its like that, and slows it down on hard knock life, just to name a few. when he was makin up new flows on the black album, he said ... "There's never been a nigga this good for this long
This hood
Or this pop, this hot
Or this strong
With so many different flows
This ones for this song
The next one I'll switch up
This one will get bit up
These fucks
To lazy to make up shit
They crazy
They don't...paint pictures
They just trace me"

and its true. jay is an innavator in the flow department on the black album, much like ace was on sittin on chrome.

mic presence? considering jay has great breath control, and he rocked the stage at summer jam, and the madison square video i saw, im not buying your story.

you cant even tell the difference between flow and delivery. in the delivery category you said "he cant even ride a beat", wtf? thats flow. 2pac with a better flow than jay? thats just stupid. jay's mentor(kane), had the best delivery ever, and it rubbed off on jay a little. how the fuck is he gonna change up his voice? i could see if he made a concept/storytelling track where he took the characters position, but he always narrarated it. you are reachin, for real.

lol @ slug being better than jay...this aint ughh son, fuck outta here with that nerd rap bullshit

[7even]

Eminem, Slug and Canibus are all better than Jay

[topdogg187]

Neither of them are overrated. 2pac is by far the greatest rapper of all time Jay-Z is top 10 IMO.