Author Topic: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....  (Read 1813 times)

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2005, 12:16:47 AM »
Two questions,1. Have you ever heared of any land where there were no people living on it?(aside from the poles)
2.What would make a movement that was not hostile toward the native population become harmful to some of it?(See, I'm even using the inconcrete euphemism you so very much like  ;) because you seem to be unable to answer without it)


Wait I believe you've already answered question number 2 long ago:
You also have to understand that people don't just let others come and take their land without resistance... the Zionists knew what they were getting into... so everytime you see a bus blow up, to them that's just a few people lost for a greater cause.

the racism that Zionists portrayed emerged after the settlement of the land...

 :) really?

Quote
In February 1919, the Emir Faisal, the one recognised Arab leader at the time, then still striving for the creation of Arab political independence in Syria (of which he was briefly king) and Iraq (over which he and his house subsequently ruled for forty years), signed a formal agreement with Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing the Zionist Organisation. This provided for co-operation between the projected Arab state and the projected reconstituted Jewish state of Palestine. Borders were still to be negotiated, but Faisal had already described the Zionist proposals as "moderate and proper." The borders proposed by the Zionists included what subsequently became Mandatory Palestine on both banks of the Jordan as well as north-western Galilee up to the Litany River-later included in southern Lebanon -- part of the Golan Heights -- later included in Syria -- and part of Sinai -- left under British administration in Egypt

settlement began much earlier as you know and resistance only later and after the agreement.







« Last Edit: December 16, 2005, 12:18:41 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2005, 03:26:57 PM »
1. You should ask the Zionists that question... I mean after all, they were the ones who assumed that there weren't any people living there... and if they did, well then you have proven my point in that they knew they were going to displace a population to accomplish their goal.

2. It was hostile. It wasn't racist in nature. Hostile isn't synonymous with racist. It was hostile because the Zionists were trying to accomplish their goal... what I mean by there initially not being any racism in their ideology is that to them it didn't matter who was living on the land they wanted to take... if that land were inhabited by Chinese people, the Zionists would've done the same thing... it didn't have anything to do with the people being Palestinian or Arab.. do you get it???

3. I can give you plenty of quotes that you seem to be so fond of that will show you how Zionists were the exact opposite of proper and moderate... but if it's anti-Zionist, it must be propaganda, right?

4. You lost a long time ago... you're starting to not even make sense anymore. "inconcrete euphemism"... I used it because you don't understand that a TERM used in modern times can be used to describe something that existed in the past, but wasn't referred to by the same term... is it wrong to refer to African-Americans of the 17th century as African-American.. or would I have to use the term nigger simply because the term African-American didn't exist back then?
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2005, 12:13:48 AM »
1. You should ask the Zionists that question... I mean after all, they were the ones who assumed that there weren't any people living there... and if they did, well then you have proven my point in that they knew they were going to displace a population to accomplish their goal.

2. It was hostile. It wasn't racist in nature. Hostile isn't synonymous with racist. It was hostile because the Zionists were trying to accomplish their goal... what I mean by there initially not being any racism in their ideology is that to them it didn't matter who was living on the land they wanted to take... if that land were inhabited by Chinese people, the Zionists would've done the same thing... it didn't have anything to do with the people being Palestinian or Arab.. do you get it???

3. I can give you plenty of quotes that you seem to be so fond of that will show you how Zionists were the exact opposite of proper and moderate... but if it's anti-Zionist, it must be propaganda, right?

4. You lost a long time ago... you're starting to not even make sense anymore. "inconcrete euphemism"... I used it because you don't understand that a TERM used in modern times can be used to describe something that existed in the past, but wasn't referred to by the same term... is it wrong to refer to African-Americans of the 17th century as African-American.. or would I have to use the term nigger simply because the term African-American didn't exist back then?

My man the point is, since there is no land without any people living on it(something you avoided answering), that you simply oppose the idea of a Jewish sovereign state anywhere(Something we've established long ago when you said you oppose Zionism\creation of Israel to begin with, following by your denial) and that you'd rather have yet another Arab state.Those who initiated national hostility were the locals, and that is after an agreement that was signed>Zionism, just like Israel nowadays, simply defended its existence and goals as a result of this hostility.Zionists, due to identification, at the time even made the historical mistake of adressing this hostility as if it were a true national movement[Disregarding it's reactive nature and that schizo among the local population it had shown,being that some were for and some were against the dea of 2 states side by side-might be because their self-proclaimed leadership sided those who were against. told you I ain't fond of everything Zionists\Israel does].
You admitting Zionism was not rascist showes that you understand its actions were self-defensive and reactive to the hostility from newfound national movements among the local population.
The fact of the term Palestinian not existing before Zionism does not mean people didn't live on this land(FACT-People lived on this land like there are people on most lands<never denied) but it does mean that they had no national agenda and that their national agenda is merely a political ploy, since its creation was reactive. Like Infinite said about propaganda tactics in the Al-ZARQAWI thread:

This is an old school propaganda tactic.  You have to put an image to the resistance.  It can't be faceless.



^^^This is exactly what was done on the part of the Palestinian Arab Leaders.

P.s You're trying to throw the discussion off track by focusing on semantics instead of focusing on the final stage of semantics(-the meaning of the words alone). And lol@wasting entire paragraphs on ego tripping, with your win/Loose nonesense :) at the expense of posting on topic.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2005, 08:31:53 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2005, 11:40:33 AM »
1. The Zionists had no claim to that land.. they were Europeans

2. Yes the Palestinians (the indigenous population.. aka the people who got their land taken away) were hostile... but what's the cause and what's the effect? Surely you've read the quote from one of your beloved Zionist terrorists explaining how no population has ever just handed their land over to people trying to take it...

3. You say you're not fond of everything Israel/Zionism does... yet you try to deny that certain people have been made victims? What actions don't you agree with then? Are they being too lenient perhaps? Should the wall be bigger in your opinion? What don't you agree with? I mean, obviously it has nothing to do with them having committed anything wrong against the Palestinian people. Or maybe perhaps you know that I'm right, but refuse to explicitly admit it...

4. Again, yes the Palestinian national movement did begin as a reaction to Zionism... so what? Does that justify the killings of Palestinian people? Does that justify removing them off the land? Does that justify building a wall on their land? Israel's actions are unjustified in trying to accomplish the goals of the Zionist movement... that's all I've said, and that holds true... no matter what irrelevancies you try bringing up. "Zionism came before Palestinian nationalism"... how that correlates to their atrocities being justified boggles my mind, but maybe it's because I haven't been fed the same bullshit you have...

5. I throw the discussion off track by focusing on semantics? LOLLL... read my posts and then read yours... go look at the other thread... read my posts and then read yours... you seem like someone drowning throwing his arms all over the place trying to keep afloat... and then you say I waste entire paragraphs on ego tripping rather than staying on topic... I know you're a Zionist so things are bound to be taken out of context and you'd rather focus on one line you can say something about, rather than focus on my post in its entirety, so I'll remind you that in my last post I made 4 points.. and only 1 was pointing out you're an idiot.. while the other 3 were on topic, and quite frankly were proving why you're an idiot, rather than simply stating that you are.

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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2005, 12:35:07 PM »
The Zionists had no claim to that land.. they were Europeans

You simply oppose the idea of a Jewish sovereign state anywhere.
Those Jews were much less European(Having lived for centuries in segregation and under persecution and being Jewish- the people who were exiled from the land and had no land for centuries) than ,say, Palestinians were Arab(who had like a number of national states by the time Israel was declared and who left the land to clear the way for Arab armies who were to eliminate their right to a sovereign state ) so even based on your logic they have much more claim to the land...you keep reciting your anti-Israeli propaganda man.
Nice work disregarding the agreement that had been signed and the fact most Palestinians weren't driven of the land but left due to the orders and intimidations of their leaders and leaders of Arab States.Let's not forget that you completely chose to disregard the fact that Palestinians who didn't oppose Zionism didn't get any representation at all as far as leadership went after the resistance started< And this is what can not be justified and what made many Palestinians victims.



« Last Edit: December 17, 2005, 12:51:51 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2005, 01:00:50 PM »
Those Jews were much less European(Having lived for centuries in segregation and under persecution and being Jewish- the people who were exiled from the land and had no land for centuries) than ,say, Palestinians were Arab(who had like a number of national states by the time Israel was declared and who left the land to clear the way for Arab armies who were to eliminate their right to a sovereign state )

I know this may be very hard to grasp, but the Palestinians were living there on that land for centuries.... the Zionists were colonizers... how are you gonna try to tell me they had a claim to the land?

If you're gonna tell me the Zionists weren't European Jews, then please tell me what they were. Entertain me.
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2005, 01:06:03 PM »
lol...In one post you call them Europeans then in the next one they are suddenly European Jews maybe you'll even get to a point when they will be simply Jews, no matter what you call them they were once exiled from this land and they have every claim to it.
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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2005, 01:14:38 PM »
lol...In one post you call them Europeans then in the next one they are suddenly European Jews maybe you'll even get to a point when they will be simply Jews, no matter what you call them they were once exiled from this land and they have every claim to it.

1. They were Europeans. They were European Jews. It's like referring to an Arab Muslim as Arab or Muslim.

2. Do you have any proof that the European Jews who lived in Europe were exiled from the land? Can't people convert to a religion? Ex: Khazzar tribe. They have as much claim to the land as the French did to Algeria, the British to Egypt, etc.

3. Even if there was some kind of proof that they were the descendants of the people exiled thousands of years ago... is that their claim? Or perhaps the good old "God gave it to us"? LMAO.
God told me that California is mine... let me take that to the government and ask them if I'm entitled to anything besides a trip to an institute for the mentally ill...
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2005, 01:35:33 PM »
This and the fact of persecution due to their religion and ethnic origin.

And since we're talking about converting now, Judasim is among the hardest if not the hardest religion to convert into, although Judasim was here long before Islam (which is much-much easier to convert into btw).
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J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2005, 03:55:33 PM »
This and the fact of persecution due to their religion and ethnic origin.

And since we're talking about converting now, Judasim is among the hardest if not the hardest religion to convert into, although Judasim was here long before Islam (which is much-much easier to convert into btw).

1. That's great, but what does persecution of Jews have to do with Palestine or the Palestinian people?

2. Are you telling me that every Jew in the world is a descendant of someone that was exiled thousands of years ago? And this must be "fact" of course, right? That would depend on if we're using the universal definition of fact... or your, the Zionist, version of the word fact...
« Last Edit: December 17, 2005, 03:57:28 PM by JML - no vowels, disembowel your Colin Powell, throw in the towel »
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2005, 01:19:58 PM »
Funny that you don't see what persecution of Jews has to do with the need in a Jewish sovereign state. Maybe you should read Mein Kampf.
And I'll put it like this, most Jews are descendants of those who were exiled from this land, due to the religious wedding laws of the Halacha- as you know secularization among Jews is relatively a modern history phenomenon and even those who did become secular(last few centuries) couldn't really blend well in an anti-semite environment.
One way or another, Jews are among the best preserved ancient peoples, both due to anti-semitism and due to the religious laws that didn't allow non-Jewish wedding.


This is only the traditional aspect, don't forget that there is a practical aspect:Jews without national home equal extinction(holocaust)..... Arabs weren't threatened with extinction and they had a number of national homes by the time Israel was created, plus, the people who founded Israel agreed to yet another Arab state(on the territory they were hoping to have) while showing great sensitivity to the fact land was naturally being inhabited, especially such a central region.
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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2005, 02:27:59 PM »
1.most Jews are descendants of those who were exiled from this land,

2. Arabs weren't threatened with extinction and they had a number of national homes by the time Israel was created, plus, the people who founded Israel agreed to yet another Arab state(on the territory they were hoping to have) while showing great sensitivity to the fact land was naturally being inhabited, especially such a central region.

1. Is that fact, or a conclusion you have reached? If you still don't know the difference, then go find out before you answer.

2. So what? So just because the Arabs weren't persecuted means the Zionists had a claim to their land? Great sensitivity to the fact that the land was naturally being inhabited? LOLLLLL please tell me this is a joke... I feel like I'm talking to a brick-wall, but at least a wall has a purpose

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2005, 09:23:21 AM »
Is that fact, or a conclusion you have reached?

It is a fact, and one that you need to know in order to debate on this matter.
Zionists had a claim to the land because Jews were persecuted-like you've inferred, if a Jewish State was to be placed at a diffferent location it would cause similar repercussions only that any other location would raise the question of entitlement to the land to an even higher bar(This means you simply oppose the idea of  Jewish state anywhere), being that Jews essentially come from Judea as you know. The fact of the Arab People having a number of national homes by the time Israel was created showes Zionism was in no way a threat to the Arab People however it was somewhat of a threat to the Arab Leaderships along the Arab world and their liaisons within Eretz Yisrael, making their political claim to the land merely a ploy also due to the reason of the "indigenous Arab population" in the land undergoing massive European colonization throughout centuries without any opposition.
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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2005, 11:28:43 AM »
Is that fact, or a conclusion you have reached?

It is a fact, and one that you need to know in order to debate on this matter.
Zionists had a claim to the land because Jews were persecuted-like you've inferred, if a Jewish State was to be placed at a diffferent location it would cause similar repercussions only that any other location would raise the question of entitlement to the land to an even higher bar(This means you simply oppose the idea of  Jewish state anywhere), being that Jews essentially come from Judea as you know. The fact of the Arab People having a number of national homes by the time Israel was created showes Zionism was in no way a threat to the Arab People however it was somewhat of a threat to the Arab Leaderships along the Arab world and their liaisons within Eretz Yisrael, making their political claim to the land merely a ploy also due to the reason of the "indigenous Arab population" in the land undergoing massive European colonization throughout centuries without any opposition.

It was a threat to the indigenous population, today known as Palestinians. You can't make an argument saying "all Arabs are the same" and that these people had so many countries to go to.
Also, if you claim that all Jews are descendants of the same Jews who were sent into exile, then prove it. Are the Ethoipian Jews, the Chinese Jew in my class, you, and every other Jew descendant of the same group of people... and no Jews have since the exile been converts? You're really digging for straws. You lost the argument. European Jews have no claim to a certain land based on their religion.. if that were the case, then Arab Muslims should be entitled to their own country in Spain... it's nonsense.
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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #89 on: December 19, 2005, 11:51:20 AM »
Its because we Muslims are sub human to the Jew....all the pussies talkin that dhimmi talk need to take a look at how Gods people view Goyims
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll