Poll

"New York, New York" -- was it more of a diss to New York or tribute to New York

diss
7 (70%)
tribute
3 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 10

  

Author Topic: "New York, New York" -- was it more of a diss to New York or tribute to New York  (Read 436 times)

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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I know what Dogg Pound is saying these days, and nearly every rapper these days is putting out revisionist history on the matter of the East/West beef.  They are saying this was a tribute track to New York and of course every rapper is blaming the East/West beef on the media, etc. etc.

I'm old enough to remember when all this shit actually came out.  So I really only want people voting on this who are old enough to remember the mid 90's...
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

dj coma

I know what Dogg Pound is saying these days, and nearly every rapper these days is putting out revisionist history on the matter of the East/West beef.  They are saying this was a tribute track to New York and of course every rapper is blaming the East/West beef on the media, etc. etc.

I'm old enough to remember when all this shit actually came out.  So I really only want people voting on this who are old enough to remember the mid 90's...

Watch the video in the sidebar to hear Kurupt speaking on it:
https://genius.com/1493021

He says the lyrics in the verses have nothing to do with the hook, which I tend to believe. I heard that Pac criticized Snoop and the Dogg Pound for using random verses on songs that don't have anything to do with the song title/hook/theme of the song, and if you are familiar with their catalog from their Death Row days, this is absolutely true. The verses seem like your standard Kurupt verses from the time and make no specific mention of NY.

So because of that, I tend to think they did the chorus randomly and it was a tribute to some degree, although a half-assed one. Keep in mind they recorded this song before the Source Awards and the murder of Jake Robles, when the beef got serious.
 

Sccit

it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang
 
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HighEyeCue

it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang

Yup the intro gave it away

 Kurupt was also rapping in a more pronounced east coast style than he usually did to show that the west coast had lyricists as well
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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I know what Dogg Pound is saying these days, and nearly every rapper these days is putting out revisionist history on the matter of the East/West beef.  They are saying this was a tribute track to New York and of course every rapper is blaming the East/West beef on the media, etc. etc.

I'm old enough to remember when all this shit actually came out.  So I really only want people voting on this who are old enough to remember the mid 90's...

Watch the video in the sidebar to hear Kurupt speaking on it:
https://genius.com/1493021

He says the lyrics in the verses have nothing to do with the hook, which I tend to believe. I heard that Pac criticized Snoop and the Dogg Pound for using random verses on songs that don't have anything to do with the song title/hook/theme of the song, and if you are familiar with their catalog from their Death Row days, this is absolutely true. The verses seem like your standard Kurupt verses from the time and make no specific mention of NY.

So because of that, I tend to think they did the chorus randomly and it was a tribute to some degree, although a half-assed one. Keep in mind they recorded this song before the Source Awards and the murder of Jake Robles, when the beef got serious.

"Old School" by 2pac is a tribute if you wanna talk tributes.

....I mean Kurupt could've been just spittin in the spirit of competition and shit like that, but at best that argument is very borderline...

...I think of his interview in Russel Simmons classic documentary The Show--where Kurupt is like "They try to say ahh the West Coast can't rap and woop woop and and that---and they get served every time straight up they get served"...

Maybe a case can be made...but if it's a tribute that's real borderline... a case can be made that it is maybe a tribute just in the spirit of healthy competition...

...but anyway that's why I'm strictly talking for headz that was a fans back in the mid-90's..... cause I just know when that shit came out and it was Christmas 95' and I was bumping that shit every morning before school it sure as fucc felt to me like the West Coast riding on the East Coast st8 bombing on them--domination--and that shit used to get me jacked!!  So maybe I got it all wrong but that's how it fuccin felt back in the muthafuckin dayzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 07:41:15 PM by Infinite Trapped in 1996 »
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

dj coma

You guys are right, the intro seems like they’re mocking.
 

dj coma

it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang

Yup the intro gave it away

 Kurupt was also rapping in a more pronounced east coast style than he usually did to show that the west coast had lyricists as well

The intro I will concede but the 2nd part of what you said could be seen as an ode or friendly competition type thing. Either way I don’t think their main intention was to diss all of NY, but to just show they could hang with the NY rappers. Like they felt slighted so they were seeking the respect and recognition they felt they deserved from that side.
 
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Infinite Trapped in 1996

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it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang

Yup the intro gave it away

 Kurupt was also rapping in a more pronounced east coast style than he usually did to show that the west coast had lyricists as well

The intro I will concede but the 2nd part of what you said could be seen as an ode or friendly competition type thing. Either way I don’t think their main intention was to diss all of NY, but to just show they could hang with the NY rappers. Like they felt slighted so they were seeking the respect and recognition they felt they deserved from that side.

Okay but what about the Juice Crew reference?  Juice Crew was a legendary East Coast Crew, Kurupt raps "Oh you got the Juice, I squeeze the Juices" something like that
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 
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dj coma

it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang

Yup the intro gave it away

 Kurupt was also rapping in a more pronounced east coast style than he usually did to show that the west coast had lyricists as well

The intro I will concede but the 2nd part of what you said could be seen as an ode or friendly competition type thing. Either way I don’t think their main intention was to diss all of NY, but to just show they could hang with the NY rappers. Like they felt slighted so they were seeking the respect and recognition they felt they deserved from that side.

Okay but what about the Juice Crew reference?  Juice Crew was a legendary East Coast Crew, Kurupt raps "Oh you got the Juice, I squeeze the Juices" something like that

“I squeeze ya juiceless” is the lyric.

“Got the Juice” is slang and I tend to think he meant it like that.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Juice

Would be kind of random to throw a shot at some NY rappers from the 80’s who weren’t really active at the time, but it’s possible. It seemed like the issues they had with the East Coast weren’t with the old school rappers, it was with the current (at the time) ones.
 

Okka

You guys are right, the intro seems like they’re mocking.

Could be the other way too though in my opinion.

it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang

Yup the intro gave it away

 Kurupt was also rapping in a more pronounced east coast style than he usually did to show that the west coast had lyricists as well

The intro I will concede but the 2nd part of what you said could be seen as an ode or friendly competition type thing. Either way I don’t think their main intention was to diss all of NY, but to just show they could hang with the NY rappers. Like they felt slighted so they were seeking the respect and recognition they felt they deserved from that side.

Okay but what about the Juice Crew reference?  Juice Crew was a legendary East Coast Crew, Kurupt raps "Oh you got the Juice, I squeeze the Juices" something like that

Second topic from you about this subject and the second time you're gettin' the lyrics wrong. U should check out RapGenius.
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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You guys are right, the intro seems like they’re mocking.

Could be the other way too though in my opinion.

it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang

Yup the intro gave it away

 Kurupt was also rapping in a more pronounced east coast style than he usually did to show that the west coast had lyricists as well

The intro I will concede but the 2nd part of what you said could be seen as an ode or friendly competition type thing. Either way I don’t think their main intention was to diss all of NY, but to just show they could hang with the NY rappers. Like they felt slighted so they were seeking the respect and recognition they felt they deserved from that side.

Okay but what about the Juice Crew reference?  Juice Crew was a legendary East Coast Crew, Kurupt raps "Oh you got the Juice, I squeeze the Juices" something like that

Second topic from you about this subject and the second time you're gettin' the lyrics wrong. U should check out RapGenius.

That's why I said "something like that".... and we live in days and times when anybody can google anything they want--I decided to do it off the top of the dome so maybe it wasn't exact for the few people that actually post at this forum... 98% of my posts aren't even read... so it's of little consequence
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

HighEyeCue

it’s a diss

you can tell by the intro where they’re mocking NY slang

Yup the intro gave it away

 Kurupt was also rapping in a more pronounced east coast style than he usually did to show that the west coast had lyricists as well

The intro I will concede but the 2nd part of what you said could be seen as an ode or friendly competition type thing. Either way I don’t think their main intention was to diss all of NY, but to just show they could hang with the NY rappers. Like they felt slighted so they were seeking the respect and recognition they felt they deserved from that side.

that's fair...Kurupt doesn't call out NY in his verses or even attempt to sneak diss

 
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kingsol81

Not a diss initially, but by the time the video came out it was. Daz & Kurupt have both said before that initially the Snoop hook was not on there, so Kurupts verses were done before the theme of the chorus was even present. Snoop has always paid homage to the east coast rappers like Slick Rick, Special Ed, Biz, KRS etc in songs so doing it here with Melle Mel fits his pattern.  But Kurupt is a battle emcee, 80 % of his content is about serving emcess,  so of course you can construe his lyrics as being pointed disses especially once the video with the buildings being kicked over had come out.
 

Okka

They been sayin' that it's a tribute since the 90's.
 
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Infinite Trapped in 1996

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yeah you guys have swayed me a bit... maybe it's a tribute after all.... Maybe not this track specifically, but it does feel like a lot of this East/West topic has become revisionist history with rappers blaming the media and saying there was no beef and they were all friends and shit...

...I just remember it back in the day it was like a real thing, and I think magazines like the Source were mostly just doing their job.  If you read the articles the journalists were actually the ones trying to be mature about the situation but still presenting both sides and doing their jobs to promote the music and culture.
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

Sccit

i don’t care what anyone says it’s an obvious diss to me
 
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Infinite Trapped in 1996

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i don’t care what anyone says it’s an obvious diss to me

 8)
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

kingsol81

yeah you guys have swayed me a bit... maybe it's a tribute after all.... Maybe not this track specifically, but it does feel like a lot of this East/West topic has become revisionist history with rappers blaming the media and saying there was no beef and they were all friends and shit...

...I just remember it back in the day it was like a real thing, and I think magazines like the Source were mostly just doing their job.  If you read the articles the journalists were actually the ones trying to be mature about the situation but still presenting both sides and doing their jobs to promote the music and culture.
VIBE Magazine definitely fanned the flames during that time.
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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yeah you guys have swayed me a bit... maybe it's a tribute after all.... Maybe not this track specifically, but it does feel like a lot of this East/West topic has become revisionist history with rappers blaming the media and saying there was no beef and they were all friends and shit...

...I just remember it back in the day it was like a real thing, and I think magazines like the Source were mostly just doing their job.  If you read the articles the journalists were actually the ones trying to be mature about the situation but still presenting both sides and doing their jobs to promote the music and culture.
VIBE Magazine definitely fanned the flames during that time.

All the Vibe articles Kevin Powell did on Pac were always critical and self-righteous because Kevin Powell was on a black nationalist tip about “don’t sell out your brothers for fame and notoriety” and the majority of the journalists in hiphop at that time were actually from the PE late 80’s era of hiphop and used to look down on gangsta rap....

...unless you want to make the argument that niccaz don’t know how to read and just look at the cover and shit, lol 😂
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

kingsol81

yeah you guys have swayed me a bit... maybe it's a tribute after all.... Maybe not this track specifically, but it does feel like a lot of this East/West topic has become revisionist history with rappers blaming the media and saying there was no beef and they were all friends and shit...

...I just remember it back in the day it was like a real thing, and I think magazines like the Source were mostly just doing their job.  If you read the articles the journalists were actually the ones trying to be mature about the situation but still presenting both sides and doing their jobs to promote the music and culture.
VIBE Magazine definitely fanned the flames during that time.

All the Vibe articles Kevin Powell did on Pac were always critical and self-righteous because Kevin Powell was on a black nationalist tip about “don’t sell out your brothers for fame and notoriety” and the majority of the journalists in hiphop at that time were actually from the PE late 80’s era of hiphop and used to look down on gangsta rap....

...unless you want to make the argument that niccaz don’t know how to read and just look at the cover and shit, lol 😂
After we completed a painstaking editing process, I passed the final copy to Editor-in-Chief Alan Light, after which we discussed cover lines. Dana Lixenberg’s photographs of Big and Puff were iconic. We almost didn’t need any words. Issues were going to fly off the newsstand regardless of what coverline we chose. I made a point of stating that we must not use the phrase “East vs. West” on the cover, adding that the situation was so tense that if anything happened to anyone in the Death Row or Bad Boy camps we would have “blood on our hands.” My suggested coverline was “Where’s the Beef? Big and Puff Kill That East West Noise.”

When the magazines came back from the printer with “East vs. West” on the cover, I was stunned and outraged. I burst into Light’s office in a state of utter disbelief. He seemed stressed, perhaps because he knew exactly how I felt about the decision.                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 In the issue VIBE published after Biggie’s death—bearing the cover line “When Will It End?”—Keith Clinkscales inserted a publisher’s note which I was asked to edit. In it, he admonished the whole hip-hop industry to “increase the peace” or else we would “all have blood on our hands.” The irony of hearing an echo of my own warning—after two of rap’s greatest talents had died—was almost unbearable. When XXL magazine launched its preview issue, we all knew who they were talking about when they wrote, “We won’t get your favorite rappers killed.”
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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yeah you guys have swayed me a bit... maybe it's a tribute after all.... Maybe not this track specifically, but it does feel like a lot of this East/West topic has become revisionist history with rappers blaming the media and saying there was no beef and they were all friends and shit...

...I just remember it back in the day it was like a real thing, and I think magazines like the Source were mostly just doing their job.  If you read the articles the journalists were actually the ones trying to be mature about the situation but still presenting both sides and doing their jobs to promote the music and culture.
VIBE Magazine definitely fanned the flames during that time.

All the Vibe articles Kevin Powell did on Pac were always critical and self-righteous because Kevin Powell was on a black nationalist tip about “don’t sell out your brothers for fame and notoriety” and the majority of the journalists in hiphop at that time were actually from the PE late 80’s era of hiphop and used to look down on gangsta rap....

...unless you want to make the argument that niccaz don’t know how to read and just look at the cover and shit, lol 😂
After we completed a painstaking editing process, I passed the final copy to Editor-in-Chief Alan Light, after which we discussed cover lines. Dana Lixenberg’s photographs of Big and Puff were iconic. We almost didn’t need any words. Issues were going to fly off the newsstand regardless of what coverline we chose. I made a point of stating that we must not use the phrase “East vs. West” on the cover, adding that the situation was so tense that if anything happened to anyone in the Death Row or Bad Boy camps we would have “blood on our hands.” My suggested coverline was “Where’s the Beef? Big and Puff Kill That East West Noise.”

When the magazines came back from the printer with “East vs. West” on the cover, I was stunned and outraged. I burst into Light’s office in a state of utter disbelief. He seemed stressed, perhaps because he knew exactly how I felt about the decision.                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 In the issue VIBE published after Biggie’s death—bearing the cover line “When Will It End?”—Keith Clinkscales inserted a publisher’s note which I was asked to edit. In it, he admonished the whole hip-hop industry to “increase the peace” or else we would “all have blood on our hands.” The irony of hearing an echo of my own warning—after two of rap’s greatest talents had died—was almost unbearable. When XXL magazine launched its preview issue, we all knew who they were talking about when they wrote, “We won’t get your favorite rappers killed.”


Interesting what XXL said in their launch...

...again... you got to actually read the articles and not just look at the cover and pictures
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

-Quikness-

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It was always a diss IMO

Like others have said,they was mocking how NY talk at the beginning. Suge knew controversy sells too. It’s interesting to know the timeline on this being before Jake Robles murder

Either way snoop came through and crushed the buildings .. but then hooked up with Biggie anyway  :o