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^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff said
Quote from: mrceo on June 19, 2007, 01:47:45 PM^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff saidKobe wasn't unquestionably better than Shaq by 2004? LOL if you deny this. The fact that Shaq demanded the offense, and didn't come through (who cares about percentages, dude showed up EVERY OTHER game) obviously threw the rest of the team off...Deep down inside, you know what's up. Kobe shoulda' had the offense by '03. I GUARANTEE the dynasty would still be alive had that been the case...PeACe
Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 19, 2007, 01:51:19 PMQuote from: mrceo on June 19, 2007, 01:47:45 PM^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff saidKobe wasn't unquestionably better than Shaq by 2004? LOL if you deny this. The fact that Shaq demanded the offense, and didn't come through (who cares about percentages, dude showed up EVERY OTHER game) obviously threw the rest of the team off...Deep down inside, you know what's up. Kobe shoulda' had the offense by '03. I GUARANTEE the dynasty would still be alive had that been the case...PeACethe sad thing is that the offense did run through kobe in that series and kobe let us down big time.fact of the matter was when shaq got the ball he delivered. if shaq was out of shape so was kobe because he didn't put up numbers qutie as nice when it mattered that shaq did. kobe's numbers were more unbalanced than shaq's were. look at the statsShaq 2004 NBA finals:S. O'Neal 26.6 points per game, 10.8 rebounds per game, 1.6 assists per game, over .500 field goal percentage! what more could you want from shaq, when the team wasn't able to get the ball to him??game 1:Shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 13 16 .813 0 0 8 12 5 11 1 0 1 6 4 34kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS47 10 27 .370 1 6 4 4 1 4 4 4 2 3 2 25after game one you can conclude that shaq-shot better than kobe 2.5x -and was more agressive on defense-was NOT affected by detroits defense, unlike kobeyou can also conclude that-the offense ran through kobe as shaq shot 16 times and kobe shot 27game 2:shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS 48 10 20 .500 0 0 9 14 3 7 3 0 1 3 5 29Kobe: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS49 14 27 .519 1 5 4 5 0 4 7 2 0 5 5 33after game two you can concludethat shaq:- was not affected by the detroit defense- put together his second straight great game (disproving your showing up every other night theory)you can also concluded:-the offense ran through mostly kobe as he shot 27 shots and shaq shot 20, proving the theory that if you feed shaq the ball more you win....which they didgame 3:shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS 38 7 14 .500 0 0 0 2 2 8 1 1 0 2 5 14Kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 4 13 .307 0 4 3 3 0 3 5 1 1 4 3 11after game 3 you can conclude that:-shaq and kobe were both affected by the detroit defense-shaq was less affected as, he still shot at .500-kobe's performance was more of a 180 degree change than shaq's-the offense never got off the groundgame 4:shaq:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS47 16 21 .762 0 0 4 11 3 20 2 0 1 2 4 36kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 8 25 .320 2 6 2 2 0 0 2 1 0 3 3 20after game 4 you can conclude:-shaq rebounded from his his bad performance from game 3-kobe did not posting up his second consecutive bad game of the series-the offense definately ran through kobe this game as he jacked up more shots than shaq but ended up with LESS, i said LESS poitns-kobe was affected by the detroit defense-shaq was not affected by the defense-shaq showed up on the defensive end kobe did not-shaq grabbed 20 rebounds, kobe not 1-shaq 3 great performances 1 bad one-kobe 1 great performance 1 average, and two bad ones, reverses your theory about shaq showing up every other gamegame 5shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS35 7 13 .538 0 0 6 16 2 8 1 1 0 1 4 20kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 7 21 .333 0 2 10 11 1 3 4 1 0 3 2 24after game five you can conclude:-for the FIFTH i said FIIIIIIIFTH straight game the offense ran through mostly kobe-kobe took far more shots than shaq yet they ended up with almost the same points-kobe was devastated by detroits defense, where as shaq was less- shaq still turned in a good performance where as kobe turned in an average one at best- finals score is shaq 3 great games, 1 bad one , 1 good one ; kobe 3 bad games, 1 bad one, 1 average oneafter 2004 season the offense ran through kobe 110%, then we failed to make playoffsafter 2004 season the offense runs through shaq some where else, he almsot wins mvp, and is one rebound away from making it to the finals againyou're wrong NIK just admit it
Quote from: Don Jacob on June 19, 2007, 06:20:27 PMQuote from: Now_I_Know on June 19, 2007, 01:51:19 PMQuote from: mrceo on June 19, 2007, 01:47:45 PM^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that. Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff saidKobe wasn't unquestionably better than Shaq by 2004? LOL if you deny this. The fact that Shaq demanded the offense, and didn't come through (who cares about percentages, dude showed up EVERY OTHER game) obviously threw the rest of the team off...Deep down inside, you know what's up. Kobe shoulda' had the offense by '03. I GUARANTEE the dynasty would still be alive had that been the case...PeACethe sad thing is that the offense did run through kobe in that series and kobe let us down big time.fact of the matter was when shaq got the ball he delivered. if shaq was out of shape so was kobe because he didn't put up numbers qutie as nice when it mattered that shaq did. kobe's numbers were more unbalanced than shaq's were. look at the statsShaq 2004 NBA finals:S. O'Neal 26.6 points per game, 10.8 rebounds per game, 1.6 assists per game, over .500 field goal percentage! what more could you want from shaq, when the team wasn't able to get the ball to him??game 1:Shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 13 16 .813 0 0 8 12 5 11 1 0 1 6 4 34kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS47 10 27 .370 1 6 4 4 1 4 4 4 2 3 2 25after game one you can conclude that shaq-shot better than kobe 2.5x -and was more agressive on defense-was NOT affected by detroits defense, unlike kobeyou can also conclude that-the offense ran through kobe as shaq shot 16 times and kobe shot 27game 2:shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS 48 10 20 .500 0 0 9 14 3 7 3 0 1 3 5 29Kobe: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS49 14 27 .519 1 5 4 5 0 4 7 2 0 5 5 33after game two you can concludethat shaq:- was not affected by the detroit defense- put together his second straight great game (disproving your showing up every other night theory)you can also concluded:-the offense ran through mostly kobe as he shot 27 shots and shaq shot 20, proving the theory that if you feed shaq the ball more you win....which they didgame 3:shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS 38 7 14 .500 0 0 0 2 2 8 1 1 0 2 5 14Kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 4 13 .307 0 4 3 3 0 3 5 1 1 4 3 11after game 3 you can conclude that:-shaq and kobe were both affected by the detroit defense-shaq was less affected as, he still shot at .500-kobe's performance was more of a 180 degree change than shaq's-the offense never got off the groundgame 4:shaq:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS47 16 21 .762 0 0 4 11 3 20 2 0 1 2 4 36kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 8 25 .320 2 6 2 2 0 0 2 1 0 3 3 20after game 4 you can conclude:-shaq rebounded from his his bad performance from game 3-kobe did not posting up his second consecutive bad game of the series-the offense definately ran through kobe this game as he jacked up more shots than shaq but ended up with LESS, i said LESS poitns-kobe was affected by the detroit defense-shaq was not affected by the defense-shaq showed up on the defensive end kobe did not-shaq grabbed 20 rebounds, kobe not 1-shaq 3 great performances 1 bad one-kobe 1 great performance 1 average, and two bad ones, reverses your theory about shaq showing up every other gamegame 5shaq: MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS35 7 13 .538 0 0 6 16 2 8 1 1 0 1 4 20kobe:MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS45 7 21 .333 0 2 10 11 1 3 4 1 0 3 2 24after game five you can conclude:-for the FIFTH i said FIIIIIIIFTH straight game the offense ran through mostly kobe-kobe took far more shots than shaq yet they ended up with almost the same points-kobe was devastated by detroits defense, where as shaq was less- shaq still turned in a good performance where as kobe turned in an average one at best- finals score is shaq 3 great games, 1 bad one , 1 good one ; kobe 3 bad games, 1 bad one, 1 average oneafter 2004 season the offense ran through kobe 110%, then we failed to make playoffsafter 2004 season the offense runs through shaq some where else, he almsot wins mvp, and is one rebound away from making it to the finals againyou're wrong NIK just admit itDon Jacob, you are just influenced by the media; the media, who hate Kobe, likely manipulated those numbers to make it look like Kobe took more shots, shot a far worse percentage, and thus played worse than Shaq. However, if you ask NIK, that is not the case. It was Shaq who took ridiculous fadeaway off balance three's (he wore number 8 this series), it was Shaq who took forced shots when double teamed despite having a center who was shooting like 60 percent for the series.Enough with the stats and facts, NIK is right because, as he says, if he "truly believes" something, than he is right and thus entitled to his opinion!
Where was I proved wrong?
The offense ran through Shaq, this isn't up for debate...
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe.
KOBE AVERAGED MORE BLOCKS THAN SHAQ.
DISGUSTING...SHAQ IS SUPPOSED TO SHOOT A HIGH PERCENTAGE! Every shot he took was a lay-up or dunk.
Yes, Kobe had a bad shooting series, but Shaq kept bitching at him every chance he got!
When Shaq sat down, Kobe took over and ran the offense the right way, with no fat distractions...That's how Kobe won Game 2.
Offense runs through Kobe, Lakers win that series.
haq was out to prove that he was woth $30 million a year, and still had games with under 10 rebounds and under 20 points...
The team as a whole had a bad series, but I GUARANTEE more wins had the offense ran through Kobe and had Shaq not been requesting the ball every trip down the floor, putting pressure on not just Kobe, but THE WHOLE TEAM...PeACe
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe. By EVERY 4th quarter, Shaq was already worn out, and couldn't even get off the ground.
LOL@"dominating" the debate...He keeps mentioning how Shaq played less minutes and had less shot attempts, but the offense was running through him. Why is this? THATS RIGHT
The problem with Shaq was that he was OUT OF SHAPE, he couldn't play as many minutes as Kobe. By EVERY 4th quarter, Shaq was already worn out, and couldn't even get off the ground.Why ignore my main point?
minutes per gameshaq=42.6kobe=46.2oh wow what a difference your young swing man averaged 3.6 minutes more than your old center(game 1 kobe played 2 more minutes than shaq, game two 1 more minute than shaq, and in game 4 shaq actually played more minutes than kobe)
you didn't really watch that game huh? yeah sure kobe hit the three but look what shaq did when he was tired in the second half and in overtimeShaquille O'Neal added 29 points for the Lakers[/u], six of them coming in the extra period as Los Angeles improved to 7-0 in overtime games during the regular season and postseason.This time, things looked fairly hopeless for the Lakers as they trailed by six points with less than 40 seconds left in regulation. But O'Neal converted a three-point play and Chauncey Billups missed a runner for Detroit, giving the Lakers a last shot.sorry buddy but kobe didn't win that game for us , he had A LOT of help from shaq
Saying no one had an answer for Shaq in thats series is pretty funny, considering the amount of analysts claiming Ben Wallace shut him down by wearing him out early in the games...Also funny how you keep ignoring that Kobe was undisputedly superior by 2004...PeACe
shaq's fg% ( or how effective ben wallace was on shaqgame 1: 81.3%game 2: 50%game 3: 50%game 4: 76.2%game 5: 53.8% shaq:game 1: 34 points , 11 reboundsgame 2: 29 points, 7 reboundsgame 3: 14 points, 8 reboundsgame 4: 36 points, 20 reboundsgame 5: 20 points , 8 reboundsaverage: 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg
^Kobe had ONE series against them...Every Laker had a bad series against Detroit in that series. Kobe was STILL superior to Shaq from 2002 on...PeACe