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Quote from: Russell Bell on May 13, 2011, 12:23:27 PMQuote from: Cousin Bang on May 13, 2011, 07:52:15 AMBut it is an ``old vs. new`` thing. the og`s in tha game felt like they werent getting enuff respect and were being ``blackballed``, cmon son dont act like you dont know that. Their is still a 2-party system except tha og`z r like the equivolent to tha Tea Party. Smh, critics always wanna bitch and diss everybody and hand out their version of tha truth but they can never handle it when tha truth comes out bitin them in tha ass. Tha proof is in this thread, thats y i dont even be paying threads like these any attention. U got a buncha know-it-allz who cant read between tha lines and dont even know where niggaz r really from. Sometimes i gotta sit up here and wonder do yall even listen to Rap music at all or just certain artists and you`re too gay to listen to anything new.You are not understanding what is going on here. The debate, again, is mostly about perception of talent vs. talent being more concrete or black and white. No one here is really even making distinction between new and old, just between talent and no talent; and how much "hustling" your music should be taken seriously over the amount of talent a dude has. You interject the new vs. old argument to pit yourself against others who in your mind don't know anything and supposedly don't have the right taste in music. If you want to argue about that, just make a topic about it, or post in an old one which there are plenty of.And the 2 party system is pretty much a 1 party system my friend. Both prop up the same system while one side panders to white conservative america and the other panders to you, while simultaneously fucking all of us over. If you want to believe in that, go ahead, but please don't vote.there's no basis for your "debate". you're talking about "perception of talent", how is that possible for someone to have a "perception of talent" when it comes to music, what's wrong with liking something even if it's not tha best thing in tha world #feelme. That's kinda like the great thing about Art, there is no real line, even the goofy muthafucka who made "happy dream feet" or whatever is called has a talent, his talent is making people laugh even though the dance isn't supposed to be "taking the place" of the "Electric Slide". someone who's a Trapper who's always talking about the grind is talking about his life becuz "hustling" has a new definition. Look at Lil' B for example "BASEd God", "Let That Boy Cook", that chit wasn't about cooking up actual cocaine at all, it was just a methaphor. And u failed with tha whole "new vs. old" thing tryna flip tha script when the thread is called "Why do artists/and fans TODAY feel like they have to "respect a rappers hustle"?" So it is a 2party system becuz there's still alotta wannabe Hip Hop conasuers or whatever they wanna call themselves that'r still lost in tha sauce about this game. Quote from: Infinite- African West Coastin' 2010 on May 11, 2011, 11:40:17 PMI remember back in the day when I was a kid listening to hip-hop all artists and fans were highly opinionated. Remember reading the fans comments section at the front of the Source back in the day? Even respected big-name artists like Dre, Snoop, Nas caught hell back in those times from fans and fellow artists. The game was way more competitive. Listen to Common's track "I Used To Love Her" and he disses the fuck out of West Coast rap and rappers (and then likewise WSC response record). Then on the other side you had "New York, New York" with Snoop and making fun of the East Coast at the beggining of the track "what up god..yo I got mad skillz" and kickin down buildings and ofcourse the legendary 2pac beefs everybody knows about those I don't have to mention it. But you also had even East Coast crews dissin other East Coast crews skills, like Boot Camp dissin Biggie, and Biggie even said back then that the game was wack and that he only listened to himself and Junior Mafia....So how did it go from that, to today where artists and fans feel obligated to say "He makin his money... he's doin his thang... I respect his hustle... " ...even if they aren't feeling the music or feel and artists is wack. Like in the case of Lil Wayne, artists and fans that don't even like his music don't speak against him they just say... "I respect his hustle, he's getting his". is there anything else you'd like to say Russell?
Quote from: Cousin Bang on May 13, 2011, 07:52:15 AMBut it is an ``old vs. new`` thing. the og`s in tha game felt like they werent getting enuff respect and were being ``blackballed``, cmon son dont act like you dont know that. Their is still a 2-party system except tha og`z r like the equivolent to tha Tea Party. Smh, critics always wanna bitch and diss everybody and hand out their version of tha truth but they can never handle it when tha truth comes out bitin them in tha ass. Tha proof is in this thread, thats y i dont even be paying threads like these any attention. U got a buncha know-it-allz who cant read between tha lines and dont even know where niggaz r really from. Sometimes i gotta sit up here and wonder do yall even listen to Rap music at all or just certain artists and you`re too gay to listen to anything new.You are not understanding what is going on here. The debate, again, is mostly about perception of talent vs. talent being more concrete or black and white. No one here is really even making distinction between new and old, just between talent and no talent; and how much "hustling" your music should be taken seriously over the amount of talent a dude has. You interject the new vs. old argument to pit yourself against others who in your mind don't know anything and supposedly don't have the right taste in music. If you want to argue about that, just make a topic about it, or post in an old one which there are plenty of.And the 2 party system is pretty much a 1 party system my friend. Both prop up the same system while one side panders to white conservative america and the other panders to you, while simultaneously fucking all of us over. If you want to believe in that, go ahead, but please don't vote.
But it is an ``old vs. new`` thing. the og`s in tha game felt like they werent getting enuff respect and were being ``blackballed``, cmon son dont act like you dont know that. Their is still a 2-party system except tha og`z r like the equivolent to tha Tea Party. Smh, critics always wanna bitch and diss everybody and hand out their version of tha truth but they can never handle it when tha truth comes out bitin them in tha ass. Tha proof is in this thread, thats y i dont even be paying threads like these any attention. U got a buncha know-it-allz who cant read between tha lines and dont even know where niggaz r really from. Sometimes i gotta sit up here and wonder do yall even listen to Rap music at all or just certain artists and you`re too gay to listen to anything new.
I remember back in the day when I was a kid listening to hip-hop all artists and fans were highly opinionated. Remember reading the fans comments section at the front of the Source back in the day? Even respected big-name artists like Dre, Snoop, Nas caught hell back in those times from fans and fellow artists. The game was way more competitive. Listen to Common's track "I Used To Love Her" and he disses the fuck out of West Coast rap and rappers (and then likewise WSC response record). Then on the other side you had "New York, New York" with Snoop and making fun of the East Coast at the beggining of the track "what up god..yo I got mad skillz" and kickin down buildings and ofcourse the legendary 2pac beefs everybody knows about those I don't have to mention it. But you also had even East Coast crews dissin other East Coast crews skills, like Boot Camp dissin Biggie, and Biggie even said back then that the game was wack and that he only listened to himself and Junior Mafia....So how did it go from that, to today where artists and fans feel obligated to say "He makin his money... he's doin his thang... I respect his hustle... " ...even if they aren't feeling the music or feel and artists is wack. Like in the case of Lil Wayne, artists and fans that don't even like his music don't speak against him they just say... "I respect his hustle, he's getting his".
Yes art by definition is about perception, that doesnt mean you cant argue the finer points about it. Kinda what a music forum is all about."Hustling", which is what this thread is about, has no place in a real music fan's mind as the primary reason to like an artist or to brush off the fact he or she makes crappy stuff. Why should you, as a music consumer, rate an artist higher than you would normally based upon his perceived talent, because he sold his shit cd to a bunch of retards? This was the majority of this thread, not OLD V NEW. Just because you saw 1 post that fit your view of this thread doesnt mean thats what most people were talkin about and it sure doesnt discredit this side of the argument. I think a point the threadstarter is tryin to make is that you hear much about how a rapper is a good hustler nowadays (shirts, interviews, nicknames, etc) whereas back in the day no one really knew or gave a fuck about a rapper's bank statement and most people assumed that rappers were rich even though most weren't close.I'll give it to you that the past, especially west coast gangster rap, is glorified beyond what it was even during the time when it was actually popular. That doesn't mean that all the hot new popular artists are good by comparison and that someone can't call them out when and if they do suck.
Quote from: Russell Bell on May 15, 2011, 03:22:20 PMYes art by definition is about perception, that doesnt mean you cant argue the finer points about it. Kinda what a music forum is all about."Hustling", which is what this thread is about, has no place in a real music fan's mind as the primary reason to like an artist or to brush off the fact he or she makes crappy stuff. Why should you, as a music consumer, rate an artist higher than you would normally based upon his perceived talent, because he sold his shit cd to a bunch of retards? This was the majority of this thread, not OLD V NEW. Just because you saw 1 post that fit your view of this thread doesnt mean thats what most people were talkin about and it sure doesnt discredit this side of the argument. I think a point the threadstarter is tryin to make is that you hear much about how a rapper is a good hustler nowadays (shirts, interviews, nicknames, etc) whereas back in the day no one really knew or gave a fuck about a rapper's bank statement and most people assumed that rappers were rich even though most weren't close.I'll give it to you that the past, especially west coast gangster rap, is glorified beyond what it was even during the time when it was actually popular. That doesn't mean that all the hot new popular artists are good by comparison and that someone can't call them out when and if they do suck. i like music that's talkin about tha grind, it gets me motivated so where u got this small peabody opinion from is beyond me homie (i can relate to that), not every song was meant to be gold and i'll be damned if u think most songs from "the golden era" were. i think you're starting to say anythingoutchurmouth becuz u knew u fucked up
Of course, 2Pac said it best:Listen to the words people say in their lyrics, and tell me, if that's some real shit, if that's real to you, you know what I mean. Listen to what they sayin', don't just bob your head to the beat, peep the game, and listen to what Im saying. Hold us accountable for it.End of thread.
Quote from: G-Bee on May 16, 2011, 07:05:25 AMOf course, 2Pac said it best:Listen to the words people say in their lyrics, and tell me, if that's some real shit, if that's real to you, you know what I mean. Listen to what they sayin', don't just bob your head to the beat, peep the game, and listen to what Im saying. Hold us accountable for it.End of thread.nough said!
Quote from: Shallow on May 14, 2011, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: Infinite- African West Coastin' 2010 on May 11, 2011, 11:40:17 PMI remember back in the day when I was a kid listening to hip-hop all artists and fans were highly opinionated. Remember reading the fans comments section at the front of the Source back in the day? Even respected big-name artists like Dre, Snoop, Nas caught hell back in those times from fans and fellow artists. The game was way more competitive. Listen to Common's track "I Used To Love Her" and he disses the fuck out of West Coast rap and rappers (and then likewise WSC response record). Then on the other side you had "New York, New York" with Snoop and making fun of the East Coast at the beggining of the track "what up god..yo I got mad skillz" and kickin down buildings and ofcourse the legendary 2pac beefs everybody knows about those I don't have to mention it. But you also had even East Coast crews dissin other East Coast crews skills, like Boot Camp dissin Biggie, and Biggie even said back then that the game was wack and that he only listened to himself and Junior Mafia....So how did it go from that, to today where artists and fans feel obligated to say "He makin his money... he's doin his thang... I respect his hustle... " ...even if they aren't feeling the music or feel and artists is wack. Like in the case of Lil Wayne, artists and fans that don't even like his music don't speak against him they just say... "I respect his hustle, he's getting his".But there was a a lot of real life violence and stupidity associated with that era. I think a lot of it might have to do with a reaction, conscious or not, to the bad things that happened with all that high profile dissing. Not that there hasn't been high profile battles since the murders, but even then they werecoated with mutual respect. Even Eminem would call guys like Puffy for a J-Lo remark in a highly satirical reference just to make sure it was cool.Yeah I get your point, because originally when Dre left Death Row in 96' and he came out saying good things about Biggie like "Biggies probably sittin up in a Sauna with his bitch and a bottle of Henney laughin at all these people dissing him", I actually looked up to Dre for being mature and standing up against the East/West beef. But now that the quality of music has deteriorated so drastically from that era, I miss 2pac even more and wish the rap game would be more competitive again. So I guess a best of both worlds scenario would be the late 80's era when rappers were highly critical but battlin' back then was actually an instrument used to avoid violence rather than feed into it. You had all these gangs in the Bronx New York B-Boy battlin or rap/DJ battlin when before they were beefin with violence.
Quote from: Infinite- African West Coastin' 2010 on May 11, 2011, 11:40:17 PMI remember back in the day when I was a kid listening to hip-hop all artists and fans were highly opinionated. Remember reading the fans comments section at the front of the Source back in the day? Even respected big-name artists like Dre, Snoop, Nas caught hell back in those times from fans and fellow artists. The game was way more competitive. Listen to Common's track "I Used To Love Her" and he disses the fuck out of West Coast rap and rappers (and then likewise WSC response record). Then on the other side you had "New York, New York" with Snoop and making fun of the East Coast at the beggining of the track "what up god..yo I got mad skillz" and kickin down buildings and ofcourse the legendary 2pac beefs everybody knows about those I don't have to mention it. But you also had even East Coast crews dissin other East Coast crews skills, like Boot Camp dissin Biggie, and Biggie even said back then that the game was wack and that he only listened to himself and Junior Mafia....So how did it go from that, to today where artists and fans feel obligated to say "He makin his money... he's doin his thang... I respect his hustle... " ...even if they aren't feeling the music or feel and artists is wack. Like in the case of Lil Wayne, artists and fans that don't even like his music don't speak against him they just say... "I respect his hustle, he's getting his".But there was a a lot of real life violence and stupidity associated with that era. I think a lot of it might have to do with a reaction, conscious or not, to the bad things that happened with all that high profile dissing. Not that there hasn't been high profile battles since the murders, but even then they werecoated with mutual respect. Even Eminem would call guys like Puffy for a J-Lo remark in a highly satirical reference just to make sure it was cool.
Think about this, in ten years from now there's going to be people just like us complaing about how rap sucks now and artist aren't like they used to be when Drake and Lil Wayne were running things. I wonder how many late 20s were who were 15 when Rakim released Let The Rhythm Hit Em couldn't stand to listen to Doggfather. I bet it's more than we think.
I noticed this when rappers really started going overboard with the popped out singles, and songs where these so called gangstas were singing love songs and re-enacting scenes from Grease in their videos.You then had people excusing it with shit like "He's going for kiddy/female fanbase, I ain't mad, I respect his hustle". So right there, you know that person isn't really about the music, they are about the image that has been pounded into their head, which is get money any way you can. Even if that means getting fucked in the ass and engaging in satanic worship, or dressing like a woman on tv or a movie. Fuck it, BE A HUSTLER. So what if these dudes are getting pink socks from old jewish label heads, I RESPECT THEIR HUSTLE.
Quote from: Shallow on May 16, 2011, 04:00:31 PMThink about this, in ten years from now there's going to be people just like us complaing about how rap sucks now and artist aren't like they used to be when Drake and Lil Wayne were running things. I wonder how many late 20s were who were 15 when Rakim released Let The Rhythm Hit Em couldn't stand to listen to Doggfather. I bet it's more than we think.Although I understand your logic... I'll believe it when I see it.... I don't think there will ever be any great Drake and Lil Wayne nostalgia, any more than there is Master P and No Limit nostalgia right now.