2pac Vs Eminem ESPN 2012 FINAL MC BRACKET...Thoughts?

[the synthesis]

If you think the greatest rapper of all time is the one who has quotables such as "ill bisexually reck ya", "im out the closet i been lyin my ass off, all this time me and dre been fuckin with hats off", "bend over and take it like a slut, okay mom" then hiphop has been nothing short of a failure. If thats the case, Tyler the Creator > Nas. Lil B > Jay-Z.

"mom i love you i drink  henesie im ride on my enemies", "in the club with bitches drinking henesie bust shoots on my enemies" etc.

or

"i see mothers in black cryin, brothers in packs dyin,
plus everybody's high, too doped up to ask why
watchin our own downfall, witness the end
it's like we don't believe in God cause we livin in sin
i asked my homie on the block why he strapped, he laughed
pointed his pistol as the cop car passed and blast
it's just another murder, nobody mourns no more
my tear drops gettin bigger but can't figure what I'm cryin for"

as oppose to

"i did a fart in a shopping cart, i hate u mom, i hate u kim, i'd stick my dick in eltons rim with a grin "

em is beyond corny, maybe it's a white thing?

[Smackdog]

"No one said he's wack, so don't get all emotional. I'm just saying that he has compared himself to Pac, whereas you insisted otherwise."



Well dude, If you compare yourself to someone that you are not even close to,    that is quite wack.

[GangstaBoogy]

If you think the greatest rapper of all time is the one who has quotables such as "ill bisexually reck ya", "im out the closet i been lyin my ass off, all this time me and dre been fuckin with hats off", "bend over and take it like a slut, okay mom" then hiphop has been nothing short of a failure. If thats the case, Tyler the Creator > Nas. Lil B > Jay-Z.

Assuming that you like basketball, do you judge players like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant by their worst performances?

I'm sure we can find stupid lines by any rapper, if we look for them.

A bad game is just that, a bad game. Eminem intentionally wrote those lines, recorded them, listened to them, and still submitted them for release. I wont lie, 8 mile era Eminem was one of the best EVER. But if any other rapper talked anout gay sex, incest, and shit like that they would never be allowed to be considered the best. Nas still takes shit for records like you owe me and oochie wally but weve already forgot Em just released that hideous relapse trash a few years ago? Sorry but "we made you" and "just lose" it arent the equivalent to a bad game, theyre handpicked representations of his projects. Im sure if Kobe were allowed to pick games that define his career hes going to pick the 81, 65, and 62 point games and not the 3-20, 8-27 type games.

To me pac's worst song is whatz ya phone #? But id rather listen to that than "my stepfather told me i sucked in the bed, till one night he snuck in and said were going out back i want my dick sucked in the shed".

[LAC/EASTSIDE]

I Love Pac and is one of my favorites all-time but he was NOT a better lyricist than Biggie! At least he never proved it.

[LAC/EASTSIDE]

imo 2Pac was more of a lyricist than Biggie. What Biggie excelled at was flow.

The problem is that people get the terms mixed up though, and the rappers don't help at all.  On the Thug Angel DVD, you had Mopreme saying that Pac was "lyrical" with Shock G saying that Biggie had a better "flow."  There isn't exactly a hip-hop dictionary where they say this word corresponds to this aspect, but the generally accepted views of those terms was that lyricism referred to the actual words, while flow had to do with the delivery of those words, which itself can again be split up into different categories.

XXL said it best, in their article about whether or not Pac was the greatest.  They said he had mastered flow, talking about how the way he rapped his lyrics and the energy and emotion put into how he presented them.  But as far as lyricism, Pac was generally average, with most rhymes being one, maybe two syllables (and the multi-syllabic ones were either simple or repetitive, like the Hennessy/enemies/remember me type of shit) with a lot of his metaphors and similes being very basic, for the most part.  Obviously a song like Me and My Girlfriend was a pretty dope concept, plus he was getting better toward the end of his life (as I personally always quote First to Bomb as proof), but his lyrics were mostly dope because he brought them to life.  His shit when rapped by other people just wasn't nearly as good -- i.e. Napolean rapping his verse on U Can Be Touched, Ja Rule rapping his lyrics on So Much Pain, C-Murder rapping his lyrics on On My Enemies, Snoop rapping his lyrics on Life's So Hard -- and we probably would think it was wack if we had never heard (or at least knew) that Pac wrote it.  But of course Pac stans cream over stuff like his verse on Got My Mind Made Up or when he used alliteration on If I Die 2Nite.

That being said, Pac and Eminem being at the top is something I wouldn't argue, regardless of who won.  Radio-friendly or not, Eminem is a solid emcee who really no one has ever managed to fuck with lyrically (in terms of going at him, head-on), plus he's one of the few REAL battle emcees who successfully made the transition to mainstream.  I know people like DMX and Jay-Z used to battle, but they were always into making music and not really battling full-time.  Just look at Jin, who was tearing motherfuckers up (except when he lost to Serius Jones, but I let that one slide since he won the next battle tournament while Serius Jones lost in the semi-finals, but Jin still challenged him and was offering to put up $10,000 but Serius declined, and also when he got killed by Iron Solomon, but that was writtens vs. freestyles, so take it how you will), and his Ruff Ryders shit was a flop.  So it's rare to have someone like Eminem.  I'm not saying he's better than someone like Jay-Z, but as consistent as Jay-Z has been (whereas Eminem had his moments of being wack), he still doesn't have as broad of an appeal as Eminem.

I'm just glad that fucking Lil Wayne or some other faggot didn't make it in the final brackets.  That would have pissed me the fuck off.

Great points man. I agree with most.

[DblPen]

i bet all of these people here saying that eminem is considered one of the greatest rappers because he's white, are just hating on him because of it

[DeeezNuuuts83]

"No one said he's wack, so don't get all emotional. I'm just saying that he has compared himself to Pac, whereas you insisted otherwise."



Well dude, If you compare yourself to someone that you are not even close to,    that is quite wack.

You know what, my bad, I thought you were being sarcastic in that reply, so scratch that.

A bad game is just that, a bad game. Eminem intentionally wrote those lines, recorded them, listened to them, and still submitted them for release. I wont lie, 8 mile era Eminem was one of the best EVER. But if any other rapper talked anout gay sex, incest, and shit like that they would never be allowed to be considered the best. Nas still takes shit for records like you owe me and oochie wally but weve already forgot Em just released that hideous relapse trash a few years ago? Sorry but "we made you" and "just lose" it arent the equivalent to a bad game, theyre handpicked representations of his projects. Im sure if Kobe were allowed to pick games that define his career hes going to pick the 81, 65, and 62 point games and not the 3-20, 8-27 type games.

To me pac's worst song is whatz ya phone #? But id rather listen to that than "my stepfather told me i sucked in the bed, till one night he snuck in and said were going out back i want my dick sucked in the shed".

But when it comes to writing songs, even though it's a conscious decision to use them or not (as opposed to something like a bad game where your performance is on-the-fly and can be affected by various factors), they can still make bad decisions based on their expectations that it might take off, because you never know. You can say the same thing about actors taking on bad roles that hurt their careers, but again, it doesn't take away from their ability to act or fulfill demanding roles. Just look at Heath Ledger... he took on the role of a gay man in which he had to be intimate with another man on-screen... did anyone think that could have ended his career? Mark Wahlberg thought so, since he was offered a role but turned it down. But it was a big hit whether you liked it for what it was or not, and maybe Em happened to watch that movie and got the idea of talking gay shit on his albums. Who knows.

But while the Nas subject is a great point, while he still catches flak for Nastradamus and the QBs Finest albums, when talking about Nas being one of the hip-hop greats, the discussion revolve mostly around Illmatic and later songs like Ether or Rewind. The wack shit might get brought up but very rarely do people only focus on that to the point where it's used as a reason to take him off of their lists. Eminem tends to get criticized a bit more for those flops of his (musically, not commercially, since he goes platinum in his sleep) which people place far more emphasis on when it's his turn to be considered as an all time great.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

But when it comes to writing songs, even though it's a conscious decision to use them or not (as opposed to something like a bad game where your performance is on-the-fly and can be affected by various factors), they can still make bad decisions based on their expectations that it might take off, because you never know. You can say the same thing about actors taking on bad roles that hurt their careers, but again, it doesn't take away from their ability to act or fulfill demanding roles. Just look at Heath Ledger... he took on the role of a gay man in which he had to be intimate with another man on-screen... did anyone think that could have ended his career? Mark Wahlberg thought so, since he was offered a role but turned it down. But it was a big hit whether you liked it for what it was or not, and maybe Em happened to watch that movie and got the idea of talking gay shit on his albums. Who knows.

Are you really comparing an Oscar-nominated drama film to the crap Eminem says?

[Greenbrigade]

LOL at smackdog still upset over not gettin a shoutout on hiphop weekly. But znyway Em>>>>pac. Never really been a big pac fan

[Smackdog]

Maybe em was watchin gay porno and that is what inspired his lyrics, cause Brokeback mountain came out way after em came out.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Maybe em was watchin gay porno and that is what inspired his lyrics, cause Brokeback mountain came out way after em came out.

You're right. Brokeback Mountain was obviously ripping off Eminem. They should've called it Shady Mountain.

[Black Excellence]

If you think the greatest rapper of all time is the one who has quotables such as "ill bisexually reck ya", "im out the closet i been lyin my ass off, all this time me and dre been fuckin with hats off", "bend over and take it like a slut, okay mom" then hiphop has been nothing short of a failure. If thats the case, Tyler the Creator > Nas. Lil B > Jay-Z.

LOL @ eminem's lines. if that's the best hip hop has to offer it just maybe dead then. Not.