Would Eminem be considered the GOAT if he never released music after Relapse?

[goodyoung]

I'd say his 2001 team was more consistent, while his 2006 team was uneven and had higher highs and lower lows. In the span of 7 years, the only wack contributions Elizondo/Scott/Mel-Man had made were Truth Hurts album, 2 Eve tracks on her second album, Mary's Not Today, a few Em records from Encore and TES and the shit they did for Man vs Machine.

Mark/Dawaun made some of the best Dre music ever that's better than the most of what he did with his previous team (the entirety of The Big Bang and their contribution to TBCT), with Imagine being the pinnacle of it all and a strong contender for top 5 Dre beats of all time. But they're also responsible for 30 something, Trouble, 50's Fire, Stat Quo's Here we go, with Fire being the first time I've ever heard a Dre beat and thought "Wow, that was really bad". And their team been active for only 3 years. They've done more than enough classics in the short period of time to forever be one of Dre's top teams. Unlike his current collaborations that still can't produce anything really dope even after more than 10 years.....

But it's hilarious how you trying to say The Documentary was still the hottest shit ever with Dre still being in his prime with no signs of slowing down, and The Big Bang and TBCT both already were outdated when they were released, despite coming out just a year after that and sounding more advanced. It doesn't work like that, some time needs to pass before someone's style becomes outdated, unless something major happens.
Kanye and Wayne music revolution didn't start until late 2007, so there were no fundamental changes in hip hop between 2005 and 2006.

[TraceOneInfinite]

I'd say his 2001 team was more consistent, while his 2006 team was uneven and had higher highs and lower lows. In the span of 7 years, the only wack contributions Elizondo/Scott/Mel-Man had made were Truth Hurts album, 2 Eve tracks on her second album, Mary's Not Today, a few Em records from Encore and TES and the shit they did for Man vs Machine.

Mark/Dawaun made some of the best Dre music ever that's better than the most of what he did with his previous team (the entirety of The Big Bang and their contribution to TBCT), with Imagine being the pinnacle of it all and a strong contender for top 5 Dre beats of all time. But they're also responsible for 30 something, Trouble, 50's Fire, Stat Quo's Here we go, with Fire being the first time I've ever heard a Dre beat and thought "Wow, that was really bad". And their team been active for only 3 years. They've done more than enough classics in the short period of time to forever be one of Dre's top teams. Unlike his current collaborations that still can't produce anything really dope even after more than 10 years.....

But it's hilarious how you trying to say The Documentary was still the hottest shit ever with Dre still being in his prime with no signs of slowing down, and The Big Bang and TBCT both already were outdated when they were released, despite coming out just a year after that and sounding more advanced. It doesn't work like that, some time needs to pass before someone's style becomes outdated, unless something major happens.
Kanye and Wayne music revolution didn't start until late 2007, so there were no fundamental changes in hip hop between 2005 and 2006.

Death Row Era and West Coast Resurgence Era (from "Bitch Please" to The Documentary) are Dre's most consistent .  So we are talking about cats like Daz and Sam Sneed over on the Death Row side and then cats like Mel-Man and Scott Storch over on the Aftermath side. 

Because then he had the emcees to go over the top of the record and a whole movement behind him.  Death Row was on top of the industry and then Eminem and 50 Cent/G Unit were on top, that shit was a whole movement.

So he mastered another sound by the time Relapse came around, and then mastered yet another sound by the time Compton came around.  The problem was though the hip-hop era had passed and all that shit was done in the skinny jeans era so it seems less consistent, but actually it is just as consistent. 

[Jay_J]

I'd say his 2001 team was more consistent, while his 2006 team was uneven and had higher highs and lower lows. In the span of 7 years, the only wack contributions Elizondo/Scott/Mel-Man had made were Truth Hurts album, 2 Eve tracks on her second album, Mary's Not Today, a few Em records from Encore and TES and the shit they did for Man vs Machine.

Mark/Dawaun made some of the best Dre music ever that's better than the most of what he did with his previous team (the entirety of The Big Bang and their contribution to TBCT), with Imagine being the pinnacle of it all and a strong contender for top 5 Dre beats of all time. But they're also responsible for 30 something, Trouble, 50's Fire, Stat Quo's Here we go, with Fire being the first time I've ever heard a Dre beat and thought "Wow, that was really bad". And their team been active for only 3 years. They've done more than enough classics in the short period of time to forever be one of Dre's top teams. Unlike his current collaborations that still can't produce anything really dope even after more than 10 years.....

But it's hilarious how you trying to say The Documentary was still the hottest shit ever with Dre still being in his prime with no signs of slowing down, and The Big Bang and TBCT both already were outdated when they were released, despite coming out just a year after that and sounding more advanced. It doesn't work like that, some time needs to pass before someone's style becomes outdated, unless something major happens.
Kanye and Wayne music revolution didn't start until late 2007, so there were no fundamental changes in hip hop between 2005 and 2006.

First of all i want to appriciate the way you discuss, i feel hyped to discuss with you, i feel glad to have you in this forum.

Secondly, i will edit this post and will answer you soon. But i wanted to thank you first.

[Sccit]

goodyoung is discussing the right way

 

[Jay_J]

Bro did you just put a masterpiece that is Goldmine in there???

While I agree that the rest of the songs you mentioned weren't great, and that 30 something Jay's joint always been wack, you're clearly cherrypicking the worst songs that came out from that era. Why don't you post Get You Some, Don't Get Carried Away, Imagine, Get Low, Outta Control remix, Boss' Life, Deja Vu, Crack A bottle (say what you what about the song, but the beat is crazy), In The Chetto, Cocaina, Minority Report, Lost One, Stay Wide Awake etc etc etc?

It's like if I was arguing that his 2001 team was wack and posted Choke me spank me, Take the heat, Rain Man, Not Today, Ass like that, Just lose it and Push play to prove my point.

sure they did a few good tracks. but overall they have ups and downs. they don't have a standart at all.

get you some and don't get carried away are dope songs but it doesnt match busta and yeah rap was changing already. that dre formula was not interesting anymore. the last time it made sense was the game's album because he was representing west coast gangsta shit.

rain man, ass like that, just lose it are wack thats why i hate encore dre already lost his way those days. all these encore songs u mentioned have mark batson in the team thanks for correcting me.

did u say push play? it was 2002 and people were complaining that beat is used for only an intro but not a full length song. if anybody hates push play he or she must be a west coast hip hop hater. come on, please go listen to the track like its 2002 again and tell me you are not nodding your head unconsciously. but if dre would use the same beat for eminem in 2009 in relapse i would be still standing at the same place to call it wrong artist, wrong year and outdated. am i clear with this example?

[Jay_J]

I'd say his 2001 team was more consistent, while his 2006 team was uneven and had higher highs and lower lows. In the span of 7 years, the only wack contributions Elizondo/Scott/Mel-Man had made were Truth Hurts album, 2 Eve tracks on her second album, Mary's Not Today, a few Em records from Encore and TES and the shit they did for Man vs Machine.

Mark/Dawaun made some of the best Dre music ever that's better than the most of what he did with his previous team (the entirety of The Big Bang and their contribution to TBCT), with Imagine being the pinnacle of it all and a strong contender for top 5 Dre beats of all time. But they're also responsible for 30 something, Trouble, 50's Fire, Stat Quo's Here we go, with Fire being the first time I've ever heard a Dre beat and thought "Wow, that was really bad". And their team been active for only 3 years. They've done more than enough classics in the short period of time to forever be one of Dre's top teams. Unlike his current collaborations that still can't produce anything really dope even after more than 10 years.....

But it's hilarious how you trying to say The Documentary was still the hottest shit ever with Dre still being in his prime with no signs of slowing down, and The Big Bang and TBCT both already were outdated when they were released, despite coming out just a year after that and sounding more advanced. It doesn't work like that, some time needs to pass before someone's style becomes outdated, unless something major happens.
Kanye and Wayne music revolution didn't start until late 2007, so there were no fundamental changes in hip hop between 2005 and 2006.

west coast hip hop was about to fall already, rap was changing, the documentary made west coast fans on the west coast and all around the world feel hyped. that was like a "one last time" album at the right time for both dr. dre and west coast. also 50 cent was fucking hot and he gave a few tracks of him with hooks can go mainstream. kanye and timbaland gave one of their best beats for that album. nate dogg spit one of his best hooks for the album. featurings were also dope from eminem to busta rhymes. but as i said rap game was changing.

2001 team did lots of good stuff for eminem show. do you know mel-man did the drum programming for say goodbye to hollywood? ron feemster played keyboards for "when the music stops". mike elizondo played the bass for soldier and say goodbye to hollywood. business and my dads gone crazy were fillers but they were fucking good fillers like they supposed to be. eve tracks were dope as i remember, satisfaction, what, let me blow your mind were great tracks. as i said this team dominated hip hop and charts for 6 years. you might like mark batson/dawaun parker team but they dominated nothing. its just up to your personal taste, we cant say they were succesful on dominating and inspiring. we are talking about fillers they did. i wasn't a fan of dre tracks on man vs machine by the way. he gave his weakest beats to xzibit for that album unfortunately. but they were not outdated. they were just not good enough. you remember the man vs machine leftover "black rabbit", that should have made it to the album instead other tracks.

you think 1 year is not a long time for a change? even things change in 24 hours. remember dr. dre did last nwa album on 91 and one year later he came up with g-funk.

[Duck Duck Doggy]

Then on MMLP you got tracks like "Brainless" which is actually like an update of the Slim Shady LP classic "Brain Damage" and is as good or better than that classic song.

What?? How could you even compare those two songs. Ems flow was so fluid and natural on SSLP while telling an amazing story filled with multis effortlessly. Brain damage is a masterclass in song writing that track should be studied

Brainless he’s doing the yelling rap and nowhere near the fluid flow he had on brain damage. Dope track overall but nowhere near even the worst song on SSLP.

[Duck Duck Doggy]

west coast hip hop was about to fall already, rap was changing, the documentary made west coast fans on the west coast and all around the world feel hyped. that was like a "one last time" album at the right time for both dr. dre and west coast. also 50 cent was fucking hot and he gave a few tracks of him with hooks can go mainstream. kanye and timbaland gave one of their best beats for that album. nate dogg spit one of his best hooks for the album. featurings were also dope from eminem to busta rhymes. but as i said rap game was changing.

2001 team did lots of good stuff for eminem show. do you know mel-man did the drum programming for say goodbye to hollywood? ron feemster played keyboards for "when the music stops". mike elizondo played the bass for soldier and say goodbye to hollywood. business and my dads gone crazy were fillers but they were fucking good fillers like they supposed to be. eve tracks were dope as i remember, satisfaction, what, let me blow your mind were great tracks. as i said this team dominated hip hop and charts for 6 years. you might like mark batson/dawaun parker team but they dominated nothing. its just up to your personal taste, we cant say they were succesful on dominating and inspiring. we are talking about fillers they did. i wasn't a fan of dre tracks on man vs machine by the way. he gave his weakest beats to xzibit for that album unfortunately. but they were not outdated. they were just not good enough. you remember the man vs machine leftover "black rabbit", that should have made it to the album instead other tracks.

you think 1 year is not a long time for a change? even things change in 24 hours. remember dr. dre did last nwa album on 91 and one year later he came up with g-funk.

Dre didn’t just suddenly come up with g funk out of nowhere it was a slow progression. You can hear hints of it on DOC album like on The Formula and NWA 2nd album also had some early signs of g funk as well. Also keep in mind Erick Sermon was sampling old p funk records which would lead to g funk as well also can’t forget about Above The Law.

[Jay_J]

Dre didn’t just suddenly come up with g funk out of nowhere it was a slow progression. You can hear hints of it on DOC album like on The Formula and NWA 2nd album also had some early signs of g funk as well. Also keep in mind Erick Sermon was sampling old p funk records which would lead to g funk as well also can’t forget about Above The Law.

right. i agree. but it was still called reality rap era. some songs had jazz samples, some had funk samples, some had rock sample. it was a mixture. suddenly we met somthing called "g-funk" and it started to rule the world.

in 2005 when "documentary" album was making a good farewell to industry in the name for west coast, kanye was rising with something fucking new and inspiring. lil wayne got a place with carter 2 and artists like young jeezy was a sign of "trap is coming". rakim even left aftermath because he saw dr. dre beats will not take him anywhere and he doesnt want to rap "gangsta rap" as dre asked him to do. content was changing either.

[Jay_J]

What?? How could you even compare those two songs. Ems flow was so fluid and natural on SSLP while telling an amazing story filled with multis effortlessly. Brain damage is a masterclass in song writing that track should be studied

Brainless he’s doing the yelling rap and nowhere near the fluid flow he had on brain damage. Dope track overall but nowhere near even the worst song on SSLP.

only thing similar to each other between brain damage and brainless is "brain" word. 

but he is not yelling at brainless like he did in other songs from mmlp2. he raps in "the way i am" tone and "kim" vibe more. his rapping style in brainless reminds me mmlp album. this is a song for who are eminem fans before recovery with it's production and rap.

[Sccit]

brainless bein better than brain damage would be the worst take ive ever heard if i didn't once hear someone say that dr dre's production was the weakness of relapse lol


and that's comin from someone who thought mmlp2 was a dope album and brainless was actually one of my favorites on there


but brain damage is a timeless classic .. it's not even close to being close

[TraceOneInfinite]

What?? How could you even compare those two songs. Ems flow was so fluid and natural on SSLP while telling an amazing story filled with multis effortlessly. Brain damage is a masterclass in song writing that track should be studied

Brainless he’s doing the yelling rap and nowhere near the fluid flow he had on brain damage. Dope track overall but nowhere near even the worst song on SSLP.

Yeah, true.. when you consider the storytelling, that was some of the best storytelling the music business has ever seen.  "Brain Damage" is a classic, and "Brainless" is a banger but not on the classic level of "Brian Damage".

[TraceOneInfinite]

brainless bein better than brain damage would be the worst take ive ever heard if i didn't once hear someone say that dr dre's production was the weakness of relapse lol


and that's comin from someone who thought mmlp2 was a dope album and brainless was actually one of my favorites on there


but brain damage is a timeless classic .. it's not even close to being close

agreed

[TraceOneInfinite]

only thing similar to each other between brain damage and brainless is "brain" word. 

but he is not yelling at brainless like he did in other songs from mmlp2. he raps in "the way i am" tone and "kim" vibe more. his rapping style in brainless reminds me mmlp album. this is a song for who are eminem fans before recovery with it's production and rap.

good point.. and homie, they are more alike then you think.  "Brainless" also contains effective story telling, and not only that the story isn't that much different than the story on "Brain Damage".  It alludes to bullying and also to his mother and having a dysfunctional family, and to have been a bit off as a result of trauma in his youth.

He probably could've titled it "Brain Damage 2" and that would've been dope but it wouldn't have fit the theme of MMLP2 since the track was on SSLP and not MMLP.

[TraceOneInfinite]

infinite is being super disingenuous, as usual

he nitpicks the positive reviews on recovery and nitpicks the negative reviews on relapse to try to paint it as recovery being better received

he thinks the viewers of the threads are retarded and can't just go back and read ALL the comments, which shows relapse getting about 70% positive feedback while recovery has about 70% negative feedback

fake shit

i don't get down wit that

It's no secret.  That's exactly what I was searching for.  If someone wants to do their own search, then be my guest.  I didn't claim my theory was correct, I am doing my own research.  If you don't like my research then you take 4 hours out of your day and do your own research.  But you can't do that because you actually have family and a social life.

It's pretty simple what I'm doing and I make no bones about it.  I'm doing real Scientific Research (not fake spinning ball globe or Coward-19 Research) but real Scientific Method.  Following the 5 Steps you learned in your 6th Grade Science Class:

RELAPSE ALBUM

1.  QUESTION/IDEA:  Sccit posed the idea that HEADZ liked/loved Relapse when it dropped. 
2.  MY HYPOTHESIS:  My hypothesis is that many HEADZ at the forum hated Relapse when it dropped and dissed it on here.
3.  PERFORM THE EXPERIMENT:  Bump the old thread and search for posts of HEADZ dissing the fucc out of Relapse.
4.  DATA:  I found many posts of HEADZ dissing the fucc out of Relapse.
5.  CONCLUSION:  Many HEADZ at the forum did not like Relapse and dissed the fucc out of it when it was released.

^^That's my mutherfuccin research that I did, if you don't like my research or think you would like to perform a different search then be my fuccin guest.  But good luck finding 4 hours of your day to burn through providing quality research to the members of the forum as I have done.  You guys should be thanking me. 

RECOVERY ALBUM

1.  QUESTION/IDEA:  Sccit posed the idea on here that pop fans liked Recovery but not the HEADZ at the forum.
2.  HYPOTHESIS:  My hypothesis is that I can find many headz at the forum that liked Recovery when it dropped.
3.  EXPERIMENT:  I bumped the o.g thread and performed a search to find HEADZ who liked the Recovery album.
4.  DATA:  I found many HEADZ here who liked the Recovery album when it dropped.
5.  CONCLUSION:  There were actually many HEADZ here at the forum who liked the Recovery album when it dropped, so it wasn't just the pop fans pushing the narrative.

^^If you don't like the reasearch I've done and think it was inconclusive then you can do your own fuccin research.  I provided the fuccin evidence for anybody to view and draw their own fuccin conclusion if they don't like mine.  Perform your own research, be my guest.  But really, you all should be thanking me.

relapse was received wayyyyy better by fans


it's not even close

You sure about that?  Let's do the research, we have the two threads bumped.  The Relapse thread and the Recovery thread.  Let's check and see if it is true that Relapse was received WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better by fans...