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I'm a white christian man and I never had a problem accepting the oneness of man. I have always treated all men as my brothers and all women as my sisters (adolescent mishaps excluded). I am also Greek and can say that duriing the 400 years Blacks were enslaved by Whites, Greek Orthodox Christians were enslaved by Muslims. So I feel the need to say that,( at least some), muslims seem to only except the oneness of man when that man agrees with their beliefs. And I can never accept a religion where even it's most righteous leaders follow that.
Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2004, 08:52:38 AMI'm a white christian man and I never had a problem accepting the oneness of man. I have always treated all men as my brothers and all women as my sisters (adolescent mishaps excluded). I am also Greek and can say that duriing the 400 years Blacks were enslaved by Whites, Greek Orthodox Christians were enslaved by Muslims. So I feel the need to say that,( at least some), muslims seem to only except the oneness of man when that man agrees with their beliefs. And I can never accept a religion where even it's most righteous leaders follow that.You know why he talks about the Oneness of man? Is because, if you read the sentence he is talking about how belief in the Oneness of God, has the power to bring all mankind together. Muslim's are EXTREME monotheists. The biggest sin a Muslim can commit is associating partners to God. We don't put race, nationalism, or any man before God. God is the greatest and nothing is worthy of worship but him. Muslims believe that the Christians have divided mankind by ascribing partners to God (as have other religions). But God is One, and there is nothing worthy of worship in reality but God.
That was definitely one o fhis greatest writings. The trip to Mecca really did open his eyes to the truth.
Quote from: Si-ko'tic on September 11, 2004, 01:24:57 AMThat was definitely one o fhis greatest writings. The trip to Mecca really did open his eyes to the truth.Well if the truth is white people can be good people if they convert to Islam, then I guess he did open his eyes to the truth. I believe that his trip to Mecca washed away much of his ignorance, but that doesn't mean he saw the truth. I will always strongly feel that if he had the resources he would have taken over America and enslave the whites (and any one else), unless they chose to convert, just like every other Muslim leader before him. If Muhammed himself walked around with an army trying to conquer, then I wouldn't put it past Malcolm. I've spoken to a lot of blacks who wanted to convert or have converted, and it all boiled down to the same thing, as far as what interested them the most. Every time it was because Muhammed took no shit and fought back against his oppressors. I always believed that a true faith in God would mean that one would have complete trust in him, and knowing that he will take care of you. Blessed are the oppressed for they will be free. I strongly believe that God will take care of me, so I chose not to fight those who try and bring me down and let God do so (by this I don't mean he will punish them for me, I mean he will bring me up eventually). Wouldn't death be the ultimate reward, since he brings you up with him?I understand that my hard times pale in comparison to those of slaves, but millions of christians over the beginning years of christianty had enough faith not to fight back. Mohandas Ghandi had enough undertanding of what is right to know how to have faith in it.
Quote from: Shallow on September 11, 2004, 08:42:44 AMQuote from: Si-ko'tic on September 11, 2004, 01:24:57 AMThat was definitely one o fhis greatest writings. The trip to Mecca really did open his eyes to the truth.Well if the truth is white people can be good people if they convert to Islam, then I guess he did open his eyes to the truth. I believe that his trip to Mecca washed away much of his ignorance, but that doesn't mean he saw the truth. I will always strongly feel that if he had the resources he would have taken over America and enslave the whites (and any one else), unless they chose to convert, just like every other Muslim leader before him. If Muhammed himself walked around with an army trying to conquer, then I wouldn't put it past Malcolm. I've spoken to a lot of blacks who wanted to convert or have converted, and it all boiled down to the same thing, as far as what interested them the most. Every time it was because Muhammed took no shit and fought back against his oppressors. I always believed that a true faith in God would mean that one would have complete trust in him, and knowing that he will take care of you. Blessed are the oppressed for they will be free. I strongly believe that God will take care of me, so I chose not to fight those who try and bring me down and let God do so (by this I don't mean he will punish them for me, I mean he will bring me up eventually). Wouldn't death be the ultimate reward, since he brings you up with him?I understand that my hard times pale in comparison to those of slaves, but millions of christians over the beginning years of christianty had enough faith not to fight back. Mohandas Ghandi had enough undertanding of what is right to know how to have faith in it. So if Christians like yourself are so non-violent, then why is Bush's strongest support group in this country the Christian right? How come the Christian right has been behind him in the killing of 100,000 people in Afganistan and Iraq? What happened to thou shall not kill?Second of all, Muhammad was not a conqueror. Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his followers were kicked out of Mekkah because they worshipped One God and withdrew from all forms of idol worship. They had to make hijrah to the neighboring city of Medina so that they could worship in peace. Then after their numbers grew substantially they bargained with the Mekkan's to allow them to make pilgrimage there once a year. Then, the people of Mekkah began accepting Islam in droves, so the government go nervous when the saw the strength of Islam. So the Mekkan government broke that treaty and attacked the Muslims. It was only then, after more than 13 years of persecution that Muhammad and his followers fought a fierce jihad in Mekkah. The Qu'ran tells Muslims that they can defend themselves when they are being oppressed, but a Muslim is never to be the aggressor.
Quote from: Hajj Ibrahim Islam on September 12, 2004, 10:13:00 AMQuote from: Shallow on September 11, 2004, 08:42:44 AMQuote from: Si-ko'tic on September 11, 2004, 01:24:57 AMThat was definitely one o fhis greatest writings. The trip to Mecca really did open his eyes to the truth.Well if the truth is white people can be good people if they convert to Islam, then I guess he did open his eyes to the truth. I believe that his trip to Mecca washed away much of his ignorance, but that doesn't mean he saw the truth. I will always strongly feel that if he had the resources he would have taken over America and enslave the whites (and any one else), unless they chose to convert, just like every other Muslim leader before him. If Muhammed himself walked around with an army trying to conquer, then I wouldn't put it past Malcolm. I've spoken to a lot of blacks who wanted to convert or have converted, and it all boiled down to the same thing, as far as what interested them the most. Every time it was because Muhammed took no shit and fought back against his oppressors. I always believed that a true faith in God would mean that one would have complete trust in him, and knowing that he will take care of you. Blessed are the oppressed for they will be free. I strongly believe that God will take care of me, so I chose not to fight those who try and bring me down and let God do so (by this I don't mean he will punish them for me, I mean he will bring me up eventually). Wouldn't death be the ultimate reward, since he brings you up with him?I understand that my hard times pale in comparison to those of slaves, but millions of christians over the beginning years of christianty had enough faith not to fight back. Mohandas Ghandi had enough undertanding of what is right to know how to have faith in it. So if Christians like yourself are so non-violent, then why is Bush's strongest support group in this country the Christian right? How come the Christian right has been behind him in the killing of 100,000 people in Afganistan and Iraq? What happened to thou shall not kill?Second of all, Muhammad was not a conqueror. Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his followers were kicked out of Mekkah because they worshipped One God and withdrew from all forms of idol worship. They had to make hijrah to the neighboring city of Medina so that they could worship in peace. Then after their numbers grew substantially they bargained with the Mekkan's to allow them to make pilgrimage there once a year. Then, the people of Mekkah began accepting Islam in droves, so the government go nervous when the saw the strength of Islam. So the Mekkan government broke that treaty and attacked the Muslims. It was only then, after more than 13 years of persecution that Muhammad and his followers fought a fierce jihad in Mekkah. The Qu'ran tells Muslims that they can defend themselves when they are being oppressed, but a Muslim is never to be the aggressor.He "conquered" Mekkah didn't he? And even after that he had a couple battles here and there with enemies of the people kicked him out of Mekkah. Some even say that he approved the beheading of 600 jews from a tribe near Medina. Don't say that's a lie because you weren't there. I wasn't either so I will not state it as factual. What is factual is how he legalized slavery, war, and polygamy. Of course only for men to have more wives. God forbid he allow women to have multiple husbands. He waged wars on those who did not accept him (christians, jews, other arabs). The corpses are the proof. Didn't he say in his last sermon that "No...apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born", yet Islam itself split into the Sunni, Shiite, Druze and Alawite just after he died. I'd like to think that one who speaks to God would know of things to come.Fuck the Christian Right!!!!!! Don't blame Jesus because a whole lot of people who claim to believe in his word, wouldn't follow him down the stairs to save their lives. The difference is Muhammed himself committed evil acts or at the very least condoned them, and he is your perfect human. Not even Ghandi had to go to those extents and he never claimed divinty. Yet he served a great purpose. To me Muhammed was no different than Alexander the Great, or Caesar. You name me one act of blatant evil that Jesus ever committed and I'll join you myself and try and convert people to Islam. For the record I don't really belong to any Christian sect or attend church, because Jesus never said so. I don't pray because if God knows all and hears all and sees all then aren't I talking to him all the time? Thus praying. I don't commit acts upon others that would hurt if those acts were done to me, because it feels wrong. AND I DON'T GO AROUND TRYING TO CONVERT PEOPLE TO CHRISTIANTY. If I see evil then I do my best to stop it. I may make reference to Jesus, but that is more to tone down the situation. I try and use reason and logic, much liike Jesus would, to keep the peace.
Shallow, you are speaking some nonsense regarding the details of the Prophets leadership