Lifestyle > Train of Thought
us marine kills wounded, unarmed man in a mosque in al-falluja
acbaylove:
Hate is not a consequence of Bush's actions, and it's not the consequence of Saddam's actions. Hate is not the consequence of hate. Hate is inside all of us, since the Romans and the Egypts. Since we were monkeys. Hate is something who differentiate humans from animals. It's something we should face and deal with. When you are a soldier, you somehow are "allowed" to hate. You know what i mean? In the normal life, you dont want to kill other guys or torture them or beat them to death. Why? Cause you feel a voice inside of you who tells you not to hate. You think about the consequences (read: jail) or about your religion (read: sin) and you realize it's not something to do. You scared to do it. But when you a soldier and you are fighting a war, you can't hear that voice no more and there are no consequences if you do something bad. You feel the hate at his best. And you do atrocious things like this one. Like torturing people, like raping women. You loose your mind. You feel like God, doing whatever you want. So much that even if there's a camera, you think it's right to torture an Iraqi. Just cause he's an Iraqi. So much that even if there's a camera, you kill an unstrapped Iraqi. So much that you really belive you're doing "just your work". That's why the war is dangerous, and that's the proof that war is something who kills people's mind. When you really think that to kill other people is "just your job" you are fucked up. War is hate, remember that. Only love brings peace.
*Jamal*:
^ That was the biggest pile of bullshit
Javier:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 16, 2004, 05:48:17 PM ---^ That was the biggest pile of bullshit
--- End quote ---
I agreee
Thirteen:
--- Quote from: Ant on November 16, 2004, 04:31:46 PM ---And hate is the cause of the terrorist attacks and the cause of a second Bush Presidency. The fact is, the problem isn't with the soldiers, so much as with the leadership who create an atmosphere of intolerance and put us in a situation where events like this one occur unnecessaryily. Its not the fact that this occured, its that it was unnecssary and avoidable. Abu Graib was entirely unavoidable, but poor leadership allowed it to exist.
The issue is that these actions, which are unnecesary, are weakening national security, weakening the american economy, and weakening our integrity in the eyes of the rest of the world. That is my issue, and while the US is not your country, it should be the issue on the minds of other americans.
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why you think that soldiers aren't prone to commit crimes is beyond me, there are deviants in ANY job...priests molest little children, Muslim leaders support terrorism, chocolate factory workers end up being gay serial murdering cannibals...the thing that differentiates us and the scum that we are fight is that the criminals on our side will and have been punished for their actions by a jury of their peers, while the terrorists blowing up lines of civilians are seen as freedom fighters, the people cutting the heads off of old men and women that are rebuilding their country are seen as revolutionaries
Thirteen:
--- Quote from: Ant on November 16, 2004, 01:39:23 PM ---What kind of war has more casualties per day after the war ends than while its going on?
Look I'm glad you proudly serve your country, but don't bullshit me that just because you serve in the military you know it all. Anyone that blindly supports Bush loses their right to a credible opinion. I've come on here repeatedly and instead of just spouting personal opinions I've shown you reports, and analysis by republicans and independents. Meanwhile you, nor anyone else on this site, has ever been able to effectively argue against me. The reason you can't is because this time your side is wrong, and your position is completely indefensible.
Instead you have to look for ways to discredit the attacks. Richard Clarke is partisan. Michael Scheurer is simply disgruntled. McLaughlin is upset he didn't get to head the CIA. Nobel Laureates are all liberals. The economists don't know whet they are talking about.
The way you argue. The only people who are right are the people who side with Bush. Imagine if instead of trying to prove your side right you tried to simply find out what was the truth. Instead you come from a biased position, and your unwilling to change. I was willing to change my opinion for a long time, but not one ever countered the arguements leveled agaisnt Bush. Bush never countered them instead he just deflected, lied, and slandered his opposition.
Then you come on here talking like an ignorant asshole that is proud we are 'crushin'g the opposition. We aren't crushing the opposition. We are killing people. We are killing insurgents, and we killing innocent civilians. I don;t have to serve in iraq to tell you that is wrong. If you proudly stand up for the killing of tens of thousands of innocents, if you stand up for the execution of injured insurgents, and the torture of thousands more then fuck off prick no one is proud that you served and have ur medals.
I'm proud of the soldier that served their country respectfully and served for the good of their nation and the good of the world. My Father and both of my grandfathers served under the US military. Countlesss men and women have served this country respectfully. But don't tell me that some lil prick that talks about killing like its a football game deserves respect. Everytime I hear you run your motuh about how we are killing and tearin everyoen apart it makes me think that your not different than the guy mentioned in this article.
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once again, this isn't your average war, what we are doing now can't even be compared to a war...war has a set of laws, you have uniforms...you know what you can and what you cannot attack. this is people that try to kill you one second and hide out in churchs and hospitals in the next second. why do you think there's so many civilian casualties? it's not as easy as saying "hey there's a military base, let's bomb it and see how many uniformed soldiers we can dig out" this is "ok we have to attack this church because sniper shots just kiled the 3 people in front of me...
and about me blindly supporting bush...where'd you get that from? the only reason i voted for bush is taht i knew it would piss people off, and it's worked greatly...do i think this war is right? no, but now taht we're in it i think it would be a great diservice, not only to the people that have given their lives, but also to the Iraqi people that want something better in their lives, just to pull out.
secondly, why would i have to argue with you about bush? you're the one with the problem of him being in office and the fact is you can post 10 million articles a day on why he shouldn't be there and he will still be the president...it all seems pretty useless, i have a better chance of arguing taht all grass should be purple
and finally, they are just numbers, if me or anyone else in here were to die tomorrow, no one on this board would honestly give a shit...you'd get a few r.i.p.'s and a few jokes in a thread taht will be forgotten in a few days...the only people that care about you would be your friends and families and 100 years from now, who will remember you? no one....what are you reduced to? a random grave stone and a statistic...at least if i were to die in this war, someday my name will be on a monument
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