a sign of age or is the music industry increasingly targeting younger people?

[Black Excellence]

the industry needs to focus on puttin out quality music.

[MontrealCity's Most]

Quality music according to who?? quality music can be different things. Not saying that i enjoyed Britney Spears but for what it was it was done very well, produced very well and marketed extremly well.

[BiggBoogaBiff]

Quality music according to who?? quality music can be different things. Not saying that i enjoyed Britney Spears but for what it was it was done very well, produced very well and marketed extremly well.

he has OMS, "old man syndrome", look at his name!

[dubsmith_nz]

with shit like justin beiber and these teen singers and stuff. seems more and more shameless and lower quality. a much easier target audience to hit.

or am i just getting old?

Bro I believe it's more a reflection of your mind state than anything else. If you never liked pop music then it's likely you never will, Beiber is just a 2010 version of Justin Timberlake, the same market and audience just an updated sound. Having the ability to open your mind and appreciate music through the ages without getting stuck in that one sound that you enjoyed is hard, but can also be the mark of a great musician.

Miles Davis had a 30 year career, and he achieved this by changing his back up band every 4 years with young people, thus harnessing their creative energy and insight and helping to maintain his own interest and relavance. Jay Z can be seen as doing something similiar, working with the artists of the time, but still staying true to his original sound and direction, each album a steady evolution from the last. The same music is generally being made, just with an updated sound, if your state of mind is "I'm too old for this" then you'll never have the capacity to grow with the music and appreciate the changes.

[Russell Bell]

with shit like justin beiber and these teen singers and stuff. seems more and more shameless and lower quality. a much easier target audience to hit.

or am i just getting old?

Bro I believe it's more a reflection of your mind state than anything else. If you never liked pop music then it's likely you never will, Beiber is just a 2010 version of Justin Timberlake, the same market and audience just an updated sound. Having the ability to open your mind and appreciate music through the ages without getting stuck in that one sound that you enjoyed is hard, but can also be the mark of a great musician.

Miles Davis had a 30 year career, and he achieved this by changing his back up band every 4 years with young people, thus harnessing their creative energy and insight and helping to maintain his own interest and relavance. Jay Z can be seen as doing something similiar, working with the artists of the time, but still staying true to his original sound and direction, each album a steady evolution from the last. The same music is generally being made, just with an updated sound, if your state of mind is "I'm too old for this" then you'll never have the capacity to grow with the music and appreciate the changes.

I see where youre coming from, but I look at today's situation a little different.  I think to myself sometimes what happened to finding a talent and putting them on your album because he or she is talented, not because they sold a buncha copies of their last album or ringtones.  I know that since its harder to make money in music, its become more of business first over art first, but making it that way has put a stranglehold on the final product - meaning we get what they think we will buy, not what could be great music aka where has the risk involved gone? (this is sometimes, not ALL the time).

I am not in the camp of people, however, who think every bum from the 90s who farted on stage was the best compared to anyone from the 00s or 10s.    Theres plenty of talent nowadays, its just in my humble opinion, mainstream rap has experienced a big shift from what it used to be for the reasons I wrote above.

[Shallow]

It's always been thay way. Michael Jackson. Bobby Brown. Britney. Justin Timberlake. Bow Wow. Aaliyah. Miley Cyrus. Raven. There always has and likely will always be an audience for younger stars. Nickelodeon and Disney have been milking this formula for decades now. It's kind of a common sense approach. Between back to school shopping, Halloween costumes, Christmas... there is so much money in the youth market. There's not as big a window of cross-marketing when it comes to young post-college adults. People from 24-35 are more into higher end stuff. I don't think you outgrow playing with toys, your taste just gets a little more expensive in terms of the toys you're playing with. 

And goes back even farther with Shirley Temple, Ricky Nelson, Frankie Lymon, Paul Anka. The music industry has always sold kid artists to kids. Why wouldn't they. When I was a kid, my favorite entities were children, and Hulk Hogan and Mr T, but mainly kids my age doing what I wish I could do, like Macauly Culkin in Home Alone, or that movie with the kid that ad the rocket arm and went to the majors. Goonies. Stand By Me. I didn't want to watch adult shows or listen to adult music.

[Nutty]

You're just getting old, lol.

[Jimmy H.]

I see where youre coming from, but I look at today's situation a little different.  I think to myself sometimes what happened to finding a talent and putting them on your album because he or she is talented, not because they sold a buncha copies of their last album or ringtones.  I know that since its harder to make money in music, its become more of business first over art first, but making it that way has put a stranglehold on the final product - meaning we get what they think we will buy, not what could be great music aka where has the risk involved gone? (this is sometimes, not ALL the time).

I am not in the camp of people, however, who think every bum from the 90s who farted on stage was the best compared to anyone from the 00s or 10s.    Theres plenty of talent nowadays, its just in my humble opinion, mainstream rap has experienced a big shift from what it used to be for the reasons I wrote above.

Well, the reality is when the studios/labels are not making the money they feel they should, they're gonna throw a lot less around for artists to take chances with. Everyone loves being creative but it's a different story when your career is on the line. The music business has changed so drastically in the last 10 years that of course, the art form was gonna suffer. The film industry is in better shape so they can afford that diversity when it comes to subject matter. Music's having a tougher time.

[Shallow]

I see where youre coming from, but I look at today's situation a little different.  I think to myself sometimes what happened to finding a talent and putting them on your album because he or she is talented, not because they sold a buncha copies of their last album or ringtones.  I know that since its harder to make money in music, its become more of business first over art first, but making it that way has put a stranglehold on the final product - meaning we get what they think we will buy, not what could be great music aka where has the risk involved gone? (this is sometimes, not ALL the time).

I am not in the camp of people, however, who think every bum from the 90s who farted on stage was the best compared to anyone from the 00s or 10s.    Theres plenty of talent nowadays, its just in my humble opinion, mainstream rap has experienced a big shift from what it used to be for the reasons I wrote above.

Well, the reality is when the studios/labels are not making the money they feel they should, they're gonna throw a lot less around for artists to take chances with. Everyone loves being creative but it's a different story when your career is on the line. The music business has changed so drastically in the last 10 years that of course, the art form was gonna suffer. The film industry is in better shape so they can afford that diversity when it comes to subject matter. Music's having a tougher time.

I don't think it has as much to do with the industry pushing it as it does the fans wanting it. The kids today like all that rap we call shitty. And I don't just mean party club going kids. This generation of teenage rap fans from the projects even prefer the style that's being presented. It's as old a concept as you can find; the next generation will always want something different than the last. Sometimes the difference is better in quality sometimes it's worse. Other times it's debatable.

Look at the history of Rock and Roll. It started in the 50s as a raw sounding dance music about sex. In the 60s it became more centered on art and creating something with a bigger statement, rather than just I want to fuck this girl. You can debate all day whether that was a good or bad thing for the genre. Teens of the 50s might swing one way while teens of the 60s swing another. Then we get the 70s where everything gets overblown and drawn out. But teens of the 70s will prefer those sounds. Now the 80s gets remembered as too glossy and too fluffy for almost everyone of past generations and future. Teens from the 50s, 60s, and 70s would call the 80s horrible, and teens of the 80s were even looking to go further back and finding something different.

This is where we are maybe; the 1980s for Hip Hop. The 50s was Run DMC and Kane. The 60s was Nas and Pac. The 70s was Eminem. And the 80s is Lil Wayne and everyone that came with him; Drake etc. And while the world might look back at this era in 30 years and scratch their head like the world looks at hair metal now. There are people that exist that will still praise hair metal and love it. They'll still listen to mainly 80s power pop.

Among the teens today there is no group like Outkast in the mid 90s or a rapper like Common for the niche market "conscious rap" fan, because in my opinion there aren't enough of those fans to create a rapper like that. I'm sure they exist all over myspace and release indy albums all the time, but if Common started out today he'd probably never get a record deal in this era. Just like if Bob Dylan started in 1985 he'd never get signed either. There was a big enough market of teens in the 60s and the 90s to want guys like that on TV and on the radio. The market isn't there now.

In the end everything recycles itself. There's only so many types of topics music can be about and the younger brothers of the teens today will stray far away from the current scene and that rap might sound a lot like an older version of rap that we all like. Or it might be so different than what we know we'll hate it even more, and then both us and the teens of today will hate it together.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Among the teens today there is no group like Outkast in the mid 90s or a rapper like Common for the niche market "conscious rap" fan, because in my opinion there aren't enough of those fans to create a rapper like that.

Outkast isn't really "conscious rap". Even so, the height of their popularity was in the 00s, not the 90s. Also Common is more mainstream now than he was in the 90s.

Actually I hate the term conscious rap because its so meaningless. The rappers labeled that  in category aren't necessarily any more socially aware than say an Ice Cube or a 2Pac.

Fans will surprise you every now and then. I'm still amazed how Lupe Fiasco got a record deal and was able to sell some records and get his songs played. Same for Kanye West.

[Shallow]

Among the teens today there is no group like Outkast in the mid 90s or a rapper like Common for the niche market "conscious rap" fan, because in my opinion there aren't enough of those fans to create a rapper like that.

Outkast isn't really "conscious rap". Even so, the height of their popularity was in the 00s, not the 90s. Also Common is more mainstream now than he was in the 90s.

Actually I hate the term conscious rap because its so meaningless. The rappers labeled that  in category aren't necessarily any more socially aware than say an Ice Cube or a 2Pac.

Fans will surprise you every now and then. I'm still amazed how Lupe Fiasco got a record deal and was able to sell some records and get his songs played. Same for Kanye West.

That's why I used they're 90s work and fans as a an example. Like Water For Chocolate was a huge album for a select group of fans and just the beginning of Common for most people. ATLiens is a seminal album for those kid of rap fans. Nothing Kanye or Lupe are doing is like what those albums were for the fans of that music.

I don't care for the term conscious rap either, but it was the term used to define the music by its fans. Here in Toronto more so maybe because of the Jamaican influence. Conscious is term used in Reggae circles to describe types of artist.

Either way; the abstract sounds and topics of those 90s records don't have a fan base right now. Kanye and even Lupe are easy listening artists that have different different topics. It took a long time for a lot fans of Nas and Pac to get into those mid 90s songs by artists like Common, or Gangstarr, or the Roots, or Outkast. The Kanye album didn't "sound" all that different than the successful Blueprint (that he mainly produced anyway). And Lupe wasn't the same old thing but Kick Push wasn't abstract by any means. It was sold as a backpacker anthem and marketed as an exception. He is good and would have been good in the 90s, but he would have been a harder listen then; meaning it wouldn't be as simply put together or polished.

[white Boy]

shallow, that movie is called rookie of the year, loved that shit when i was young too

oh and i need to check out lupe, a lot of people praise him from all around

it really doesnt concern me what the main stream is, i mean, it exists out there, and i might dabble in it for a second to know that it is not for me, the independent scene is pretty strong, and if those artists all go hungry, ill go back to listening to albums from the last 100 years that i still havent got around to, i dont really blame record companies, they are just trying to get theirs,

explain this to me, how does a girl like taylor swift sell (i forget the number, but it was rediculously high for these days) in her first week?

[Shallow]

shallow, that movie is called rookie of the year, loved that shit when i was young too

oh and i need to check out lupe, a lot of people praise him from all around

it really doesnt concern me what the main stream is, i mean, it exists out there, and i might dabble in it for a second to know that it is not for me, the independent scene is pretty strong, and if those artists all go hungry, ill go back to listening to albums from the last 100 years that i still havent got around to, i dont really blame record companies, they are just trying to get theirs,

explain this to me, how does a girl like taylor swift sell (i forget the number, but it was rediculously high for these days) in her first week?

That's the name. I saw it in theaters and bought the VHS first week.


And Taylor Swift is like the Eminem for junior high white girls in America. So all 3 to 5 million of them buy her album. She's actually very good at speaking to and for them. I'll never spend any time listening to her album, other than to see what the fuss is about. But she's portrayed as a legit songwriter who captures the emotions that 11 to 15 year old girls feel everyday. And she might be the first of her type to actually speak for that group in a realistic way. They aren't selling a figure you want to work towards becoming. They are selling a figure you think you already are.