Does anyone agree that Nas has 5 albums which are better than GRODT?

[Shallow]

I think Will Smith has 5 albums better than GRODT and I don't even know if he has 5 albums. So of course Nas does.

lol, I think 50's a fucking moron, but GRODT was kinda enjoyable

I'd say:
Illmatic
Stillmatic
The Lost Tapes
It Was Written
HipHop Is Dead

I rarely listen to hiphop these days, but maybe I should check out "Untitled". Haven't heard it yet. But well, yes, I agree he has 5, por lo menos

When Get Rich came out I was still listening to a lot of hip hop and I had a lot of 50 Cent stuff prior to the release of the album and prior to signing with Aftermath. I really anticipated the album and it was a huge let down for me. I liked the mix tapes a lot and expected to hear an artistic growth on the album, instead I got the opposite. He dumbed himself down and became an image to sell. He was this big bad gangster who got shot and his raps were good because they were real. The album still never got played in my earphones after a month.


Anyone that says GRODT was better than SSLP needs to really think about what they are saying. I could give a fuck about production who what album had better club bangers. 50 and Em are rappers abd I'll judge the albums based on the rapping. I personally liked the production and set up of SSLP but I know many did not. But no one can come on here and tell me that 50 Cent was ever remotely close to the level of rapping that Eminem was on as far their debut albums are concerned. Shit the best thing about Get Rich was Eminem's rap.

Take the acapellas of each album and compare them and Eminem's is so far and away better it doesn't matter how good the production on GRODT was (which I thought was mediocre, generic, bullshit anyway).

At least SS had it's own sound that was distinct and didn't sound like every other gangsta rap album coming out like 50s did. Get Rich was early 2000s hip hop by numbers. Nothing original about it.

If Eminem was black and rapped the exact same lines and rhymes but changed the words around for it to be about revolution or some shit it would have been an underground album and so hailed by the hip hop community, but because he was white rapping comedy people find ways to discredit it.


And I don't even like SSLP that much.

[Sikotic™]

GRODT was ass. It was ass in 2003. It is ass in 2009. You people continue to belittle yourselves and you musical tastes by acting like that album is classic. If GRODT is a classic, than so are my pubes.

[Shallow]

GRODT was ass. It was ass in 2003. It is ass in 2009. You people continue to belittle yourselves and you musical tastes by acting like that album is classic. If GRODT is a classic, than so are my pubes.

Hey man, bash Fitty all you want, but leave your pubes alone.

[dubsmith_nz]

...and does anyone agree Nastradamus shits all over The Massacre?

no... i think massacre is very underrated

Sure its got a bit of filler, but there is alot of dope tracks on there. It absolutely shits all over Curtis. What I'm saying is I agree with that too.

Yup I agree, Massacre is very underated in my opinion, plus it contains one of few listenable Yayo verses

[Dre-Day]

As time passes by, GRODT drop's in rank ,IMO
don't really have alot of reply value to me....

A true classic stand's the test of time.
(Check Em's stuff, That went stale real quick zero replay value & played disses that no longer hold any weight)

I'd put these 3 over GRODT easy.

Illmatic
It Was Written
Stillmatic

Word, them 3 are without doubt better albums than GRODT but 50s debut was one of the best recent album considered a debut.

I agree about alot of eminems material getting played out quick too but grodt>>>sslp as a opening album and illmatic shits on both. It was written and stillmatic are both better than them too.

So i agree with your post!

pz!

i heavily disagree; SSLP beats both

[LyRiCaL_G]

I think Will Smith has 5 albums better than GRODT and I don't even know if he has 5 albums. So of course Nas does.

lol, I think 50's a fucking moron, but GRODT was kinda enjoyable

I'd say:
Illmatic
Stillmatic
The Lost Tapes
It Was Written
HipHop Is Dead

I rarely listen to hiphop these days, but maybe I should check out "Untitled". Haven't heard it yet. But well, yes, I agree he has 5, por lo menos

When Get Rich came out I was still listening to a lot of hip hop and I had a lot of 50 Cent stuff prior to the release of the album and prior to signing with Aftermath. I really anticipated the album and it was a huge let down for me. I liked the mix tapes a lot and expected to hear an artistic growth on the album, instead I got the opposite. He dumbed himself down and became an image to sell. He was this big bad gangster who got shot and his raps were good because they were real. The album still never got played in my earphones after a month.


Anyone that says GRODT was better than SSLP needs to really think about what they are saying. I could give a fuck about production who what album had better club bangers. 50 and Em are rappers abd I'll judge the albums based on the rapping. I personally liked the production and set up of SSLP but I know many did not. But no one can come on here and tell me that 50 Cent was ever remotely close to the level of rapping that Eminem was on as far their debut albums are concerned. Shit the best thing about Get Rich was Eminem's rap.

Take the acapellas of each album and compare them and Eminem's is so far and away better it doesn't matter how good the production on GRODT was (which I thought was mediocre, generic, bullshit anyway).

At least SS had it's own sound that was distinct and didn't sound like every other gangsta rap album coming out like 50s did. Get Rich was early 2000s hip hop by numbers. Nothing original about it.

If Eminem was black and rapped the exact same lines and rhymes but changed the words around for it to be about revolution or some shit it would have been an underground album and so hailed by the hip hop community, but because he was white rapping comedy people find ways to discredit it.


And I don't even like SSLP that much.

'I could give a fuck about production who what album had better club bangers. 50 and Em are rappers abd I'll judge the albums based on the rapping. '
^^^

that right there is where you are lost. Yes rapping is what you judge a rapper on but this is MUSIC, rapping is part of it. Production on GRODT shits all over sslp if u want to go there.

If thats how u judge all music in all genres in general than just buy the accapellas because no need for anything else...but we both know its not just that which makes music great...or terrible...but just to clarify, im not taking anything away from rapping there because its a great art form if you can have a great flow and play with words BUT great rappers will make a great beat into a great song!..Well often if they're on form, so yes rapping is part of that but sometimes, just because you're the better rapper, does not automatically mean you will make the better music/album.

If you want to call the stuff which came out on 50s debut generic in terms of production which is not true for starters, than eminems album at the time it came out had an even more generic sound because alot of music had that sorta sound when it came out. Another thing, 50s debut album within hiphop circles is considered to have had a very impressive and stylish eastcoast sound for the time it was released. It basically was a fresh blueprint in how to make a hiphop album. Not saying its better or worse than previoius blueprints but when it came, it was fresh and something new at the time.

As for you saying about club bangers, thats part of rapping! He was making a club banger and it worked! Eminems always coming out with these shitty corny first single but 50 actually dropped a heated first single! In da club is an amazing club track...yes AMAZING and the production on it is top top class. Thats a beat that will get a club bouncing each time and everyone i knew who liked hiphop and did not loved the joint and the beat at the time which pretty much sums it all up for me.

As for the being white part, please. Because he is white he has sold loads more than he should! At his peak, eminem was great BUT he has achieved alot more than he should have based on the fact he is white so people are more amazed that 'damn a white kid can rap like that' which gets him spins on radio stations he should not be getting spins on and gets props where others would not. So dont be playing the white card, because thats bullshit. Eminems album sounded a mix between what was coming out from dres music and detriots sound whereas 50 had a gangsta album record BUT if you think 50s album sounded like every other gangsta album coming out at the time you're deluded because firstly thats not true, the numbers simply prove that point and it took a different approach.

At the time, you had to have a corny single to make a hit, push units etc and then 50 came fresh with an out of the box club banger that was brilliant.

You say u think 50 had generic bullshit production but was there not a time when you used to say you thought eminem was a better producer than dr dre?? lol, im not sure if that was you but if it was, that would maybe make your point of view a little more understandable.

By the way, im not saying 50 is a better rapper than eminem, not at all, but 50 dropped a heated debut (this coming from someone who thought massacre and curtis were both average to wack) and the music and his delivery and words at times were both fresh and nice to hear on a gangsta rap album. Many men, in da club, heat, wanksta, back down , high all the time are all heated tracks.

As for you listening to alot of 50 prior to his album coming out, well if u say so. I won't question that but regardless, 50 came correct on his debut as proved by both his numbers and the general approval the album gets within hiphop circles. (yes i know, numbers do not always mean great albums. For example - Encore, absolute shit)


As for you saying the best thing about grodt was eminems verse, that pretty much sums up your arguement for me. His verse was very good BUT there was a whole bunch of things to come out of that album which was MUCH better than that verse! ...


I know u a big eminem fan or seem to be by mostly being in any thread with his name mentioned and ive been here for years so ive read alot of your shit and usually whether i agree or don't, you usually have a good way of presenting your view but the way you just described 50 and eminem in this, almost sounds like a clueless attempt at a groupie tryna spit 'knowledge'...which we both know u aint, but some of stuff you wrote in that was laughable to me.

grodt>>sslp...imo

I'm sure white people in here would probably disagree because they all seem to love the album and mostly white people consider sslp a great album whereas you'll see black people give him a pass more on MMLP where i would also say was his finest moment.

SSLP = 4 MIC ALBUM imo

GRODT = 4.25 probably - slightly better than sslp but with higher peaks likes in da club and many men etc whereas eminem had the great guilty conscience and other records but i think GRODT is slightly better.

By the way, thats not taking anything away from sslp, i thought it was dope. i just thought grodt was a little better.

pz!

[LyRiCaL_G]

As time passes by, GRODT drop's in rank ,IMO
don't really have alot of reply value to me....

A true classic stand's the test of time.
(Check Em's stuff, That went stale real quick zero replay value & played disses that no longer hold any weight)

I'd put these 3 over GRODT easy.

Illmatic
It Was Written
Stillmatic

Word, them 3 are without doubt better albums than GRODT but 50s debut was one of the best recent album considered a debut.

I agree about alot of eminems material getting played out quick too but grodt>>>sslp as a opening album and illmatic shits on both. It was written and stillmatic are both better than them too.

So i agree with your post!

pz!

i heavily disagree; SSLP beats both

So we heavily agree to heavily disgaree

[LyRiCaL_G]

oh and just to make another point clear, eminem as a rapper >>>> 50 cent, without doubt, ...

but...that dont mean...the weaker person cannot put out something thats much better than the greater rapper.

FOR EXAMPLE...


Game documentary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Encore...    but we all know eminem on form is a much better rapper than game!

pz

[bad-n-fluenz supporter of the dangerous crew movement]

ok i know i'll get  karma drop for this...but here goes & for the record i'm also a nas fan but i have to say grodt is better than any nas album and even though power of the dollar was shelved it was a better debut than illmatic..

[Shallow]

'I could give a fuck about production who what album had better club bangers. 50 and Em are rappers abd I'll judge the albums based on the rapping. '
^^^

that right there is where you are lost. Yes rapping is what you judge a rapper on but this is MUSIC, rapping is part of it. Production on GRODT shits all over sslp if u want to go there.

If thats how u judge all music in all genres in general than just buy the accapellas because no need for anything else...but we both know its not just that which makes music great...or terrible...but just to clarify, im not taking anything away from rapping there because its a great art form if you can have a great flow and play with words BUT great rappers will make a great beat into a great song!..Well often if they're on form, so yes rapping is part of that but sometimes, just because you're the better rapper, does not automatically mean you will make the better music/album.

I judge musicians by their music, and rappers by their rapping. If it’s a rap album I look at the rap first, not the basic loops and simple drum programming. Both 50 and Eminem, and Dre for that matter, suck at making music. 50 is best at selling himself. Em is best at witty melodic rhymes, and Dre is best at stealing from 70s funk.

If any of these people actually composed music I’d judge the music, but when all you do is rhyme over someone else’s music I’ll judge the rapper’s performance. It’s like if I were to listen to two Jazz trumpeters that each released an album of Jazz standards. One trumpeter has a bunch of easy to listen to hits and plays passably while the other takes a bunch of obscure tracks and plays the shit out of them. The latter album will always be better to me.

Take the Illmatic acappelas and put them with the simplest most boring loops you can think of, then take the top ten hip hop productions you know and put the worst rapper over them. Nas rapping over fart sounds would a better album as far as I’m concerned.

I could listen to Doggystyle with much more enjoyment than I ever could Illmatic but Illmatic is on another plateau that Doggystyle cannot reach.

If you want to call the stuff which came out on 50s debut generic in terms of production which is not true for starters, than eminems album at the time it came out had an even more generic sound because alot of music had that sorta sound when it came out. Another thing, 50s debut album within hiphop circles is considered to have had a very impressive and stylish eastcoast sound for the time it was released. It basically was a fresh blueprint in how to make a hiphop album. Not saying its better or worse than previoius blueprints but when it came, it was fresh and something new at the time.

I’m not calling it generic. It is generic. Whether you want to admit that or not is up to you. In Da Club is every Dre production given out to other artists since after 2001. Whether it’s 50, Mary J Blige, Ice Cube, Xzibit, or the Rolling fucking Stones, it’s generic 2000s hip hop production. The production is all the exact same for all of these artists.

Note; production not composition. Most rap fans don’t know the difference. I’m just making myself clear about. I’m not saying you don’t know the difference.

SSLP’s production, the Bass brothers, was the opposite of generic. It was very distinct with regards to mainstream rap and had its own sound not commonplace in hip hop. It was also very unpolished and almost amateurish which distinguished it even more.

As for you saying about club bangers, thats part of rapping! He was making a club banger and it worked! Eminems always coming out with these shitty corny first single but 50 actually dropped a heated first single! In da club is an amazing club track...yes AMAZING and the production on it is top top class. Thats a beat that will get a club bouncing each time and everyone i knew who liked hiphop and did not loved the joint and the beat at the time which pretty much sums it all up for me.

At the time, you had to have a corny single to make a hit, push units etc and then 50 came fresh with an out of the box club banger that was brilliant.

So Nelly, Ja Rule, Cash Money, Luda were selling all those album with corny singles, not club tracks?

As for the being white part, please. Because he is white he has sold loads more than he should! At his peak, eminem was great BUT he has achieved alot more than he should have based on the fact he is white so people are more amazed that 'damn a white kid can rap like that' which gets him spins on radio stations he should not be getting spins on and gets props where others would not. So dont be playing the white card, because thats bullshit.

I’m not arguing that Em would have been as popular if he wasn’t white. I did say the opposite when I said if he was black and never became famous. I’m saying he never gets respected by certain black hip hop fans because he’s white. We all now his skin made him the huge star he's become.

Eminems album sounded a mix between what was coming out from dres music and detriots sound whereas 50 had a gangsta album record BUT if you think 50s album sounded like every other gangsta album coming out at the time you're deluded because firstly thats not true, the numbers simply prove that point and it took a different approach. 

The numbers are partly because of Eminem and how big he was at the time and how closely associated 50 was with him. In pro wrestling the term is called getting a rub. The numbers are also just as much due to the guys image and his ability to sell it. He was put out brilliantly as “the real deal”. He had been shot. People were after him. He looked like a dangerous thug. You could sell the guy and he knew how to sell himself at same tme. That’s why Get Rich did so well while Restless did not. You take Xzibit, parade him around as Em’s new right hand, make a big budget video for Don’t Approach Me and treat Xzibit like he’s brand new on the scene and a real gangster with real guns and then let him try and sell that image and all of a sudden Restless goes 4 platinum.

50s album wasn’t saying anything that Jay or Nas albums of the late 90s and early 2000s were saying, lyrically and musically. But he had more promotion and again the Eminem rub.

Say what you want about the guy but between 99 and 2003 Eminem was far and away the biggest name in music and when he put his all behind a guy, meaning name dropping him every ten seconds and promoting him that guy becomes huge. Devil’s Night was like 2 or 3 platinum. What would that album have sold with out Em’s name on it?

And what Dre stuff of the time? Dre hadn’t released music in a while when SSLP dropped. And take Em out of the equation and the 6 platinum 2001 would have been lucky to go 3x. Make a video for Renegade and Blueprint triples in sales.

There is a reason why Em can drop a complete piece of shit like Encore and still go half diamond while 50 can combine every sale from every album he was on after Get Rich and still not reach a third of the success.

50 was a gimmick that ran dry while Em is a still a bonafide star like Michael Jackson. No matter how bad the follow up album gets they’ll still sell a lot more than they should.

You say u think 50 had generic bullshit production but was there not a time when you used to say you thought eminem was a better producer than dr dre?? lol, im not sure if that was you but if it was, that would maybe make your point of view a little more understandable.

I don’t remember ever saying that. I certainly don't hold that opinion. I really don’t think much of either as a producer. Dre at his best is the David Foster of hip hop. Fuck David Foster.

Trent Reznor, Rza, Jack White, Phil Spector, Rick Rubin, Brendan O’Brien. Those are great producers.

As for you listening to alot of 50 prior to his album coming out, well if u say so. I won't question that but regardless, 50 came correct on his debut as proved by both his numbers and the general approval the album gets within hiphop circles. (yes i know, numbers do not always mean great albums. For example - Encore, absolute shit)

I post on a hip hop forum and have for years. You doubt whether or not I knew of 50 before he signed with Shady? Those mixtapes were everywhere. How To Rob was famous on almost every forum I knew of.

As for you saying the best thing about grodt was eminems verse, that pretty much sums up your arguement for me. His verse was very good BUT there was a whole bunch of things to come out of that album which was MUCH better than that verse! ...

And I don’t even like the verse.

I know u a big eminem fan or seem to be by mostly being in any thread with his name mentioned and ive been here for years so ive read alot of your shit and usually whether i agree or don't, you usually have a good way of presenting your view but the way you just described 50 and eminem in this, almost sounds like a clueless attempt at a groupie tryna spit 'knowledge'...which we both know u aint, but some of stuff you wrote in that was laughable to me.

Maybe when I was 17 everything you said here would be true. But that was almost ten years ago.

In the grand scheme of things I’m not a big Eminem fan. I have no plans on buying his next album. I have no desire to see him live if he tours. I barely listen to his old music. He is not on my top 100 artists list. At his best he was very funny (frat humor), very witty, and he rapped very musically (which was much better than his shitty sing songy musical raps of more recent years).

But every time Em attempted to be serious or say something real he fell very short when I look back at it. Sure when Stan came out and I was 18 I thought it was genius. But I’m not 18 anymore. His serious songs are too Paul Haggis for me. They leave very little to the imagination and are way too literal, like most rap, but more importantly I never bought or felt his emotions either.

2pac’s body of work suffered from a lot of the same shit but in the end it was much tighter and more believable. He conveyed himself much better than Em, and that’s why Tupac would easily get a spot on my top 100.

[LyRiCaL_G]

'I could give a fuck about production who what album had better club bangers. 50 and Em are rappers abd I'll judge the albums based on the rapping. '
^^^

that right there is where you are lost. Yes rapping is what you judge a rapper on but this is MUSIC, rapping is part of it. Production on GRODT shits all over sslp if u want to go there.

If thats how u judge all music in all genres in general than just buy the accapellas because no need for anything else...but we both know its not just that which makes music great...or terrible...but just to clarify, im not taking anything away from rapping there because its a great art form if you can have a great flow and play with words BUT great rappers will make a great beat into a great song!..Well often if they're on form, so yes rapping is part of that but sometimes, just because you're the better rapper, does not automatically mean you will make the better music/album.

I judge musicians by their music, and rappers by their rapping. If it’s a rap album I look at the rap first, not the basic loops and simple drum programming. Both 50 and Eminem, and Dre for that matter, suck at making music. 50 is best at selling himself. Em is best at witty melodic rhymes, and Dre is best at stealing from 70s funk.

If any of these people actually composed music I’d judge the music, but when all you do is rhyme over someone else’s music I’ll judge the rapper’s performance. It’s like if I were to listen to two Jazz trumpeters that each released an album of Jazz standards. One trumpeter has a bunch of easy to listen to hits and plays passably while the other takes a bunch of obscure tracks and plays the shit out of them. The latter album will always be better to me.

Take the Illmatic acappelas and put them with the simplest most boring loops you can think of, then take the top ten hip hop productions you know and put the worst rapper over them. Nas rapping over fart sounds would a better album as far as I’m concerned.

I could listen to Doggystyle with much more enjoyment than I ever could Illmatic but Illmatic is on another plateau that Doggystyle cannot reach.

If you want to call the stuff which came out on 50s debut generic in terms of production which is not true for starters, than eminems album at the time it came out had an even more generic sound because alot of music had that sorta sound when it came out. Another thing, 50s debut album within hiphop circles is considered to have had a very impressive and stylish eastcoast sound for the time it was released. It basically was a fresh blueprint in how to make a hiphop album. Not saying its better or worse than previoius blueprints but when it came, it was fresh and something new at the time.

I’m not calling it generic. It is generic. Whether you want to admit that or not is up to you. In Da Club is every Dre production given out to other artists since after 2001. Whether it’s 50, Mary J Blige, Ice Cube, Xzibit, or the Rolling fucking Stones, it’s generic 2000s hip hop production. The production is all the exact same for all of these artists.

Note; production not composition. Most rap fans don’t know the difference. I’m just making myself clear about. I’m not saying you don’t know the difference.

SSLP’s production, the Bass brothers, was the opposite of generic. It was very distinct with regards to mainstream rap and had its own sound not commonplace in hip hop. It was also very unpolished and almost amateurish which distinguished it even more.

As for you saying about club bangers, thats part of rapping! He was making a club banger and it worked! Eminems always coming out with these shitty corny first single but 50 actually dropped a heated first single! In da club is an amazing club track...yes AMAZING and the production on it is top top class. Thats a beat that will get a club bouncing each time and everyone i knew who liked hiphop and did not loved the joint and the beat at the time which pretty much sums it all up for me.

At the time, you had to have a corny single to make a hit, push units etc and then 50 came fresh with an out of the box club banger that was brilliant.

So Nelly, Ja Rule, Cash Money, Luda were selling all those album with corny singles, not club tracks?

As for the being white part, please. Because he is white he has sold loads more than he should! At his peak, eminem was great BUT he has achieved alot more than he should have based on the fact he is white so people are more amazed that 'damn a white kid can rap like that' which gets him spins on radio stations he should not be getting spins on and gets props where others would not. So dont be playing the white card, because thats bullshit.

I’m not arguing that Em would have been as popular if he wasn’t white. I did say the opposite when I said if he was black and never became famous. I’m saying he never gets respected by certain black hip hop fans because he’s white. We all now his skin made him the huge star he's become.

Eminems album sounded a mix between what was coming out from dres music and detriots sound whereas 50 had a gangsta album record BUT if you think 50s album sounded like every other gangsta album coming out at the time you're deluded because firstly thats not true, the numbers simply prove that point and it took a different approach. 

The numbers are partly because of Eminem and how big he was at the time and how closely associated 50 was with him. In pro wrestling the term is called getting a rub. The numbers are also just as much due to the guys image and his ability to sell it. He was put out brilliantly as “the real deal”. He had been shot. People were after him. He looked like a dangerous thug. You could sell the guy and he knew how to sell himself at same tme. That’s why Get Rich did so well while Restless did not. You take Xzibit, parade him around as Em’s new right hand, make a big budget video for Don’t Approach Me and treat Xzibit like he’s brand new on the scene and a real gangster with real guns and then let him try and sell that image and all of a sudden Restless goes 4 platinum.

50s album wasn’t saying anything that Jay or Nas albums of the late 90s and early 2000s were saying, lyrically and musically. But he had more promotion and again the Eminem rub.

Say what you want about the guy but between 99 and 2003 Eminem was far and away the biggest name in music and when he put his all behind a guy, meaning name dropping him every ten seconds and promoting him that guy becomes huge. Devil’s Night was like 2 or 3 platinum. What would that album have sold with out Em’s name on it?

And what Dre stuff of the time? Dre hadn’t released music in a while when SSLP dropped. And take Em out of the equation and the 6 platinum 2001 would have been lucky to go 3x. Make a video for Renegade and Blueprint triples in sales.

There is a reason why Em can drop a complete piece of shit like Encore and still go half diamond while 50 can combine every sale from every album he was on after Get Rich and still not reach a third of the success.

50 was a gimmick that ran dry while Em is a still a bonafide star like Michael Jackson. No matter how bad the follow up album gets they’ll still sell a lot more than they should.

You say u think 50 had generic bullshit production but was there not a time when you used to say you thought eminem was a better producer than dr dre?? lol, im not sure if that was you but if it was, that would maybe make your point of view a little more understandable.

I don’t remember ever saying that. I certainly don't hold that opinion. I really don’t think much of either as a producer. Dre at his best is the David Foster of hip hop. Fuck David Foster.

Trent Reznor, Rza, Jack White, Phil Spector, Rick Rubin, Brendan O’Brien. Those are great producers.

As for you listening to alot of 50 prior to his album coming out, well if u say so. I won't question that but regardless, 50 came correct on his debut as proved by both his numbers and the general approval the album gets within hiphop circles. (yes i know, numbers do not always mean great albums. For example - Encore, absolute shit)

I post on a hip hop forum and have for years. You doubt whether or not I knew of 50 before he signed with Shady? Those mixtapes were everywhere. How To Rob was famous on almost every forum I knew of.

As for you saying the best thing about grodt was eminems verse, that pretty much sums up your arguement for me. His verse was very good BUT there was a whole bunch of things to come out of that album which was MUCH better than that verse! ...

And I don’t even like the verse.

I know u a big eminem fan or seem to be by mostly being in any thread with his name mentioned and ive been here for years so ive read alot of your shit and usually whether i agree or don't, you usually have a good way of presenting your view but the way you just described 50 and eminem in this, almost sounds like a clueless attempt at a groupie tryna spit 'knowledge'...which we both know u aint, but some of stuff you wrote in that was laughable to me.

Maybe when I was 17 everything you said here would be true. But that was almost ten years ago.

In the grand scheme of things I’m not a big Eminem fan. I have no plans on buying his next album. I have no desire to see him live if he tours. I barely listen to his old music. He is not on my top 100 artists list. At his best he was very funny (frat humor), very witty, and he rapped very musically (which was much better than his shitty sing songy musical raps of more recent years).

But every time Em attempted to be serious or say something real he fell very short when I look back at it. Sure when Stan came out and I was 18 I thought it was genius. But I’m not 18 anymore. His serious songs are too Paul Haggis for me. They leave very little to the imagination and are way too literal, like most rap, but more importantly I never bought or felt his emotions either.

2pac’s body of work suffered from a lot of the same shit but in the end it was much tighter and more believable. He conveyed himself much better than Em, and that’s why Tupac would easily get a spot on my top 100.

Okay i know u broke down my post into different sections but im going to just drop this reply as one without breaking it down into answering your questions in seperate sections because im gonna fuck up the post most likely lol


Anyway...

Dre aint having the best of times recently and he does sample shit from time to time and has known to sample alot in the past BUT he does have an amazing ear for music and has produced some great stuff and has even made samples BETTER. But not all his stuff is samples and he does produce original music, some of which is great. Dre is respected within music ranks as one of the best living producers and gets his props from ALL circles and anyone who knows about production and rightly so. He is the main stay of all the success of all these big names like snoop to xzibit to eminem to 50 to game etc and has made alot of hits for people past and present and also groups like NWA and so on.

Yes he has been highly influenced by 70's funk music but everything you hear, old and new is influenced by something else. At times you will hear a track and think 'oh this sounds like its been influenced by 'x' ' yet when the beat was made, it may have not even come into a producers thoughts, its just your influences are naturally going to have some sort of influence on how you create music. Dre is a living great when it comes to production.


If by 2001 you mean the album, then dre gave 50cent something completely different to the sound he was going for in that album. Yes it was still a hiphop beat but it is a classic beat and you can argue all you want whether its generic or not but the fact is the majority of people loved it! Its a certified classic beat and it is what made 50cent more so than anything else. Dres music has changed alot since 2001 came out, he has gone into different directions, sometimes more dynamic and now to a more simple style which i aint feeling right now but at the end of the day, its still hiphop beats.

Nelly/jarule really only made tracks for women. Mostly women dug there shit with some men now and again when they came with something different BUT in general, there shit was never really regarded hiphop in its essence or atleast the form we cam up listening. Ja rule never ever really pushed crazy units either and he was the more 'rapping' orientated of the two.

Ludacris is an amazing rapper, now he was making clubs tracks but he was amazingly witty with his rhymes too...but again, his club tracks had a following BUT nothing to push units like crazy. Cash money never really pushed anything major either. It was all about the corny wack first single eminem style at the time. Once in a while you get a good one. Now its all about the club track for the first single...again, once in a while you get a good one.

Okay so we both agree on the eminem thing, my bad.

Yes 50 sold partly because of the affiliation to eminem but it was not the main reason nor the only reason he sole. I know you said 'partly' but as you progress you make it sound like it was because of eminem 50 sold but that is  not true at all. If anyone could lay a claim to saying it was because of him he sold, it would be dr dre. Dre was the man behind in the club and 50 rode it right at the time. Nobody was pushing units like eminem at the time nor was there any major club hits coming from a nigga on a regular at the time until this came through and blew the fuck up! Everyone i knew liked it, people who did not even like hiphop were loving the joint! Go into a club now and if you aint heard the joint for a while, it still bangs. The claps were fresh at the time and the music was not complicated but great.

If eminem was the reason 50 sold, then cheers should have sold more. Thats were the arguement goes flat because eminem pushed obie harder but 50 has momentum, he has wanksta, the 9 shots story (which also helped his sales, without doubt) and he had aftermath and shady as we both agree on BUT he delivered, he lived up to his hype with the first single. After that, success was guarenteed.


The reason encore sold so good was because he already dropped albums like MMLP and eminem show (which i was not a fan of, but i know some people like alot) and 8 mile, had his movie and like you say, is a BONAFIDE star so it was natural encore would sell regardless of quality.

Its like when 50cent dropped massacre and grodt ost, they both sold so well because of past efforts or links but when curtis came out, people had enough of 50 because the blueprint he helped create with dre for grodt for modern gangsta rap hiphop, he never followed it on his very next album. Infact he went the jarule way for his second album, the complete contradiction of his marketing.


So i take it you're coming close to 27? I am 24,  feel old lol but i can dig your post more now because atleast you explain yourself better as have i, so while we disagree, i can respect your opinion like i have mine. ;-)

Pz!

[Shallow]

Just a few clarifications


I said post 2001 production; Mary J's Family Affair. Xzibit's X. Shit like that. The production in songs like that are identical to the In Da Club production.

I never said he had a bad ear. I called him David Foster. Foster has amazing talent and a super great ear. I just don't care for his style.

For the record, Dre has never actually sampled anything. From day one he was working with studio musicians that would replay the music and then it would be looped. It is true that some, not much of the better stuff, was original compositions composed by Storch or Elizondo and Dre had the ear to say it sounded good. But everything from G Thang to Xplosive was recreated from old songs and while Dre's version may sound better to you, they sound worse to my ear. Which is where a lot of my resentment towards him comes from.

Nelly obviously had monster sales but no he wasn't gangsta rap. He was club rap. Ja Rule had back to back triple platinum albums. Very good for any rap artist. I can't think of too many that have that. Luda did it also, and then followed it up with back to back to back double platinum. As for Cash Money, 400 Degreez went 4 platinum. That's pretty big numbers there. And the point is they were doing it with out corny singles. Who exactly was making money with corny singles other than Em?

But let me put this argument to rest once and for all like I did back in 03 when 50 first got huge. I forgot about all the arguments I used to raise that left everyone in my neighborhood (black neighborhood fyi) with out any reasonable comeback. It was a gangster rapper who blew up and was as big as 50. He was pegged as the real deal and sold as such, and he played to the image perfectly. He was selling 4 platinum followed by 3 platinum, followed by 6 platinum and then 3 platinum again. And he did this all during the height of the Eminem era. DMX, which is what 50 was the updated version of. As recently as two years before 50 D was releasing smash club hits and telling dark street tales and was a star, but for some reason by 2003 he was pretty much forgotten by the mainstream media.

NWA was first. The gangster rappers sold as real thugs. That was replaced by one of the members Dre, with Snoop in the early 90s. Then the mantle fell to Tupac and the deceased Biggie Smalls, and then DMX, and then 50. Now 50 is done and I'll bet with in the next two years another rapper from the streets will emerge with an updated sound and an image that seems more real to white america and he'll sell the same huge numbers all the previous artists did.

Obie was never one of those guys and could never sell himself like 50 could. Royce if given Renegade and signed to Shady may have been a lot biger than any other Shady camp member but again 50 was sold on image as much as on Eminem spotlight. Basically what I mean is if in 2003 50 Cent released the exact same album with Bad Boy records or Ruff Ryders it would have been just another album. Getting all the mainstream promotion as Eminem's new gangster was as much a reason for his success as the image. DMX did it alone and that's why he sold more in the long run. That being said 50 could re-invent himself and sell again but the old 50 is dead.


Sadly I'll be 27 this November. I feel like I'm still 19 in many regards, but every birthday of the last few years the idea that I'm closer to 30 than 20 is very depressing. I don't even want to think what 30 will feel like.

We'll have to agree to disagree on a lot of things. Much of where our musical roads take us I think has to do with race. You're black, I'm white. When I "outgrew" hip hop it was because I was drawn to all these white artists that covered much of the same ideas the best hip hop did and with such a hard sound, but with much more sophistication and musical talent that it was easy for me to drop rap altogether by my mid 20s. There simply aren't may black "rock" artists. 90% of the socially aware or intelligent black artists have a much softer soul sound and can't give the energy hip hop gives. Jimi Hendrix of course is a huge exception. I'd also greatly recommend Bad Brains to you.

The point is we are naturally drawn to what we consider ourselves a part of, and for me at 20 that was being streetwise but it was also seeing it from a white perspective.

Eminem couldn't give me this;

I had skin like leather and the diamond-hard look of a cobra
I was born blue and weathered but I burst just like a supernova
I could walk like Brando right into the sun
Then dance just like a Casanova
With my blackjack and jacket and hair slicked sweet
Silver star studs on my duds like a Harley in heat
When I strut down the street I could hear its heartbeat
The sisters fell back and said "Don't that man look pretty"
The cripple on the corner cried out "Nickels for your pity"
Them gasoline boys downtown sure talk gritty
It's so hard to be a saint in the city

I was the king of the alley, mama, I could talk some trash
I was the prince of the paupers crowned downtown at the beggar's bash
I was the pimp's main prophet I kept everything cool
Just a backstreet gambler with the luck to lose
And when the heat came down it was left on the ground
The devil appeared like Jesus through the steam in the street
Showin' me a hand I knew even the cops couldn't beat
I felt his hot breath on my neck as I dove into the heat
It's so hard to be a saint when you're just a boy out on the street

And the sages of the subway sit just like the living dead
As the tracks clack out the rhythm their eyes fixed straight ahead
They ride the line of balance and hold on by just a thread
But it's too hot in these tunnels you can get hit up by the heat
You get up to get out at your next stop but they push you back down in your seat
Your heart starts beatin' faster as you struggle to your feet
Then you're outa that hole and back up on the street

And them South Side sisters sure look pretty
The cripple on the corner cries out "Nickels for your pity"
And them downtown boys sure talk gritty
It's so hard to be a saint in the city


And that spoke to me more than any black gangster rapper or Slim Shady ever could. Musically, everything changed for me when I heard that song.

I remember that same year being 20 and reading this verse;

Eighth Avenue sailors in satin shirts whisper in the air
Some storefront incarnation of Maria, she's puttin' on me the stare
and Bronx's best apostle stands with his hand on his own hardware
Everything stops, you hear five, quick shots, the cops come up for air
And now the whiz-bang gang from uptown, they're shootin' up the street
And that cat from the Bronx starts lettin' loose
but he gets blown right off his feet
And some kid comes blastin' round the corner but a cop puts him right away
He lays on the street holding his leg screaming something in Spanish
Still breathing when I walked away
And somebody said "Hey man did you see that? His body hit the street with such a beautiful thud"
I wonder what the dude was sayin' or was he just lost in the flood?
Hey man, did you see that, those poor cats are sure messed up
I wonder what they were gettin' into, or were they just lost in the flood?

And thinking I could see Nas rapping it word for word and fitting into Illmatic or It Was Written perfectly, and not only was these songs written long before Illmatic, they were written while Nas was still in his mother's womb back in '73.

[stillinrehab]

I think Will Smith has 5 albums better than GRODT and I don't even know if he has 5 albums. So of course Nas does.

This post made me lol

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

I'll stick to 3. The first 3 you said.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

yea, i cant believe i forgot



possibly the 2nd or 3rd best after ill

I challenge people to find better Unreleased compilation, that is fire.

I know of a better unreleased compilation, and that's the one from Royce 5'9" that was floating around back in early 01', that one had bangers up and down, tracks like "Money", "The Throne Is Mine", "Soldier", that album was sick, way better than anything he every released.


...but anyway, yeah, I agree Nas 3 albums better than GRODT, with Hip Hop Is Dead falling shortly behind GRODT

1.  Illmatic
2.  GOD'S SON  (BIG TIME UNDER-RATED NAS ALBUM!!!.... very touching album, deeply personal, "Dance With Mama", "Thug's Mansion" with Pac, and so on, and track 4 Last Real Nigga Alive he destroys all New York rappers!)
3.  Stillmatic
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Get Rich Or Die Trying