Enter Brian Wilson's World for 12 Minutes...

[Trauma-san]

Pulp Fiction is a good movie.  

dont know were this came from, but, it sure is, my fav movie of all time... dialoge is just too good

Oh, I just said that because people started saying random shit.  LOL

[DAYUM]

The music isn't my cup of tea but the guy seems cool as hell. Like an old dude you could just chill with and you could learn off of.

thats the same shit i was thinking like a wise old man once told me...

[Trauma-san]

I never said Bruce was the greatest or best, I said he was my favourite and that he's better than Michael Jackson (and what I meant was more versatile). I apologize for the confusion.

But since you put Pet Sounds over the albums I mentioned, why don't you explain to me what makes Pet Sounds so great? I mean I like it, but you called it the greatest like it's a fact. So tell me what makes it better or even as good as "The Wall", or "Who's Next".

You say I have the problem of not being able to distinguish between preference and quality, but I think it's more you that have that problem. You talk about Wilson's musical ability and significance like the guy's fuckin Mozart or Beethoven. News flash!!!!!! He's not even close. I understand that Pet Sounds was the first album to have a reaccuring theme. But c'mon that's all it really had going for it. Some say it had a surprising amount of soul, but those people meant it had a surprising amount of soul for a Beach Boys album, or for a bunch of white guys, not for the sake of soul. If you look at the black artists of the day soul was oozing out of there records way more than the Beach Boys' ones.

Now I don't want to seem like I'm putting down Pet Sounds, because I love the album. I own the album. And I frequently listen to the album. But I have a problem with someone calling it the absolute greatest, and then disgracing classic albums by Dylan, the Who, and Floyd. In the end there is no such thing as the greatest album, it's all subjective. I'ts all preference. There is no factual quality in art. It's not like saying one chair is better in quality than the other, because the chair could physically be built better and last longer. An album or a song is based on preference and emotion (and marketing), if people like it they like it. It doesn't make it good or better than another, because that is impossible.If industry insiders, reviewers and journalists deem it a masterpeice that doesn't make it one. (and for the record if you were to poll those people Springsteen would beat Jackson by a landslide, sorry had to get that in there). You can sit there on your high horse and pretend you know more about music than every other living person. You can feel special because you're the only guy you know your age that listens to and respects the music you do. But the reality is you know nothing, I know nothing. We're just a couple of idiots with very strong opinions about topics that are 100 percent irrelevent to the world. You like what you like and I like what I like. Don't ever be foolish enough to think that your opinion is stronger than mine, or vice versa.

Again, it's not just *MY opinion that Pet Sounds is better... it's many, many, many people's opinions.  You HAVE to think that since serious music critics around the world have consistantly named it the best, or one of the best, it's got to have something to it.  

You asked what was so great about it... well... I suppppose I'll tell you.  First off, the album being thematic isn't really what makes it great, hardly anyone considers it a classic for that.  As a matter of fact, the Beach Boys had done that before, they had an entire album of Car songs... lol... that's 1 central theme, I guess you could call that concept album!!!!

Anyways, soul? I've never heard that about Pet Sounds.  Lets go through track by track, if you want to talk about why it's the greatest album of all time.

Before Pet Sounds came out, Brian had already started suffering from the depression that would haunt his life.  He had horrible stage fright, and as mentioned before was deaf in one ear.  He had struck up a friendship with Paul McCartney, and was flying out of the U.S. to go on tour... he had just married a few months prior to that, and was madly in love with his wife.  2 weeks after the tour started, he was on the verge of having a mental breakdown, because of all of these emotions compounding upon each other, and he couldn't cope.  He was in love with his wife, but at the same time, she brought him great sorrow becuase he was away from her.  He loved his father, of course, but at the same time he caused Brian great sorrow because he was incredibly abusive.  He loved to perform, but at the same time had immense stage fright that petrified him before each performance.  He idolized Phil Spector & The Beatles, but at the same time felt incredibly competitive with them and felt he was losing his grip on his throne atop the music world.  He had a lot of shit going on.

Anyways, he makes a deal with Mike Love and the rest of the Beach Boys that he'll return home, and record an album with studio musicians, and by the time they get back, he'll have it completed waiting for their vocals.

When he gets back home, he hears "Rubber Soul" by the beatles for the first time.  He had been making creative songs like "Wendy", "The Little Girl I Once Knew", "In My Room", The Warmth Of the Sun, When I Grow Up (to be a man), etc... so he was already at a creative peak.  When he heard "Rubber Soul", he thought he had to top the Beatles, and make an even better album.  So, he goes in the studio, and brings together the Wrecking Crew, the legendary band that would help him record some of pop's greatest music.  The Wrecking Crew can attest to this day, that even though Brian had never taken music lessons, he wrote the entire album in his head, and had sheets of music for them when they entered the studio each day.  I'm talking about piano parts, drum parts, bass parts, percussion parts, string sections, brass ensembles, etc.  He wrote out the music longhand.  Carol Kaye has talked before about how sometimes the notes would be written down wrong, like have the staff in the wrong place, or a flat on the wrong side of the note, or whatever, because Brian had crudely written them down with no experience or teaching.  *Sniff, *Sniff, what's that I smell? Smells like a FUCKIN GENIUS COMING

"Wouldn't It Be Nice" - The album starts off with this incredible song about a man in love with this girl, and they're talking about how great it's going to be when they grow up together.  The Harmonies are FUCKING INCREDIBLE, Brian's voice is amazing, the song perfectly captures the mood of being in love... he's not just telling you about being in love, he's making you feel like you ARE in love.  The song even has Timpani in it, who the fuck puts Timpani in pop songs?  Notice how the dynamics fade in and out, notice how the song retards and progresses in the bridge.  Notice how the harmonies are flawless... this is my favorite song of all time.  Perfect.

Next, comes

"You Still Believe In Me"

Paul McCartney says the first time he heard this song, he cried.  The Lyrics are incredible, about a man who constantly does this girl wrong, and she always takes him back because she loves him so much.  The song continuously builds, and the chorus and verses never step back down like a traditional pop song does.  Most songs go like for instance

C, D, D, D, E, E, D, D, D, C or something similar.  This one goes

C, C.... C, C.... D, D... E, E,..... and just keeps building higher, higher, higher, higher througout each verse and chorus.  Genius, it had never been done before, but it's just so fucking simple it has to be divine inspiration.  

The 'hook' is simply Brian, with his amazing voice, singing "I... want to Cryyyyy yyyyyy yyyyy" the inflection and intonation in his voice as it grows louder, and softer, higher, and lower is just incredible, and you'd be hard pressed to find a better lead vocal ever.  At the end, the song fades out to nothing more than a simple bassline, and then comes back in, with all Beach Boys singing the harmony over and under Brian's lead, on 1 note.  Incredible.  

To explain Brian's genius is an exercise in futility.  Many of the things he does can only be described as miraculous, they're often mistakes that end up being perfect.  This song, "You still believe in me", was originally intended to be a song about children.  When he recorded the backing track, he had a little bicycle horn and bell in the studio, and rang and honked them a couple times over the mixdown... he later decided to change the song into a love song about a guy and girl breaking up... but the bells and horns had already been mixed in and couldn't be removed with destructing some of the backing track.  He left them in, and sang the song from a child's perspective.  "I know perfectly well you've been patient with me... and I've been very aware I'm not where I should be".  When they mixed down the final track; the bell and horn remained in the song on the final album, but they fit in so fucking perfectly you think they're by intent, not by accident.  It's incredible the way he does that.  

"That's Not Me" - Great song about a young man moving to the city, with Mike and Brian trading lead vocals.  The backing instrumental is just a pleasure to listen to, Brian's songs... you can remove the words, and they sound just as good as plain MUSIC as any complete song he ever released.  The end lyric "I once had a dream so I packed up and split for the city; I soon found out that my lonely life wasn't so pretty" is haunting and stoic.

"Don't Talk (put your head on my shoulder)" is another incredible production, the music can almost depress you it's so well put together.  The whole song is about not talking and feeling the moment, and the song makes you do just that with the muted and depressed instruments in the back... the last words of the song are Brian saying "Listen... Listen.... listen........." and then the band continuing the incredible melody.

"I'm Waiting For the Day" features a carnival organ and lyrics about how this guy is waiting for this girl to break up with her man, and how he's going to be there for her.  Brian has an incredible way of ending each and every song, and in this one, the refrain features him and Mike shouting "You didn't Think, Girl, that I would sit around and let him take you?" and is one of the more upbeat songs on the album.

"Lets Go Away For A While" is an instrumental.  Who the hell was doing Instrumentals before Brian?  Brian called it "The most satisfying musical experience" of his life after he recorded it.  I don't know how to describe an instrumental to you, you've heard it, you know it's great.  

"Sloop John B" is a traditional song that Al Jardine presented to Brian before they went on tour.  It's the first song that Brian recorded for the album, since he'd already started it.  The backing track starts off with this great flute solo that sounds like a "sailors life for me, AAAARGH, MATEY!"... or it gives you that vibe.  the song is about this little day trip they took on a boat, and got in all kinds of trouble.  Stupid little lyrics, but the harmonies, and Brian's voice, are incredible on this.  The first verse, Brian doesn't even SING, he just SPEAKS the damn lyrics.  His voice sounds angelic, even when he's TALKING.  He TALKS the chorus, while the rest of the Beach Boys are singing their hearts out, and then you notice at the beginning of the second verse, that he's just now brought the drums in, the first verse was without rhythm.  Awesome vocals by Mike Love, with Brian relinquished to the background, where he rides above everyone else with a voice only he posseses in the entire known world.  The drums are driving, Brian's soaring over the chorus singing perfectly in Falsetto, which I have heard hardly anyone capable of doing since then; and it sounds so good by that point, he drops all of the instrumental out till they're just singing the chorus acapella, then crashes it all back down into him speaking the third verse again, instead of singing.  If you can't understand that this song is LEGEND, you don't know music.

"God Only Knows" - is the first pop song to ever use the word "God".  Brian had his brother Carl sing it, because he felt Carl had a better voice, and they prayed for a perfect vocal before Carl recorded this perfect version in 1 take.  To make the incredible bass line, Brian recorded a stand up bass, an electric bass, and his bass line on piano, all at once, to make it have that Spectorish Wall of Sound.  At the end, the harmony between Carl, Bruce, Dennis, Al, and Brian is one of the greatest harmonic melodies ever written.  According to Paul McCartney, "God Only Knows" is the greatest song ever written, by anyone, including himself.  

"I Know There's An Answer" - Originally titled "Hang on to your ego", the music is incredible, how the hell can you not hear the genius in this instrumental?  This song features the first ever solo by a Bass Harmonica.   Who the fuck came up with that? Brian Wilson.  The song lyrically is about people who withdraw from the world, much like Brian himself was starting to do.... Yet ANOTHER flawless vocal performance from Brian.

"Here Today" - another one of the upbeat songs, to balance the album out... The solo, where the band rocks out and you get to hear the Wrecking Crew in full swing is awesome.  His band the Wondermints really do this justice in concert when they do it now, it's one of the highlights.

"I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" - another flawless vocal.  Lyrics like "They say I got brains, but they ain't doin' me no good... I wish they could" and "Where can I turn when my fair weather friends cop out/ What's it all about" with Brian singing his heart out, just make you want to cry for the guy.  He was literally cracking the fuck up on album, and WRITING ABOUT IT.  The music and instrumental, again, is superior to anything on the radio then, or now.  First ever use of a Theremin, the instrument Brian would make legendary with it's use on "Good Vibrations"  "Sometimes, I feel very sad... Sometimes, I feel Very Sad... Sometimes I Feel Very Sad... " Genius in the truest since of the word.

"Pet Sounds" - this was an instrumental Brian recorded for use in a James Bond movie.  The whole concept of "Pet Sounds" is these are Brian's "Pet" sounds, his favorite sounds, in other words.   Nice song with great Surf guitar, and a great drum solo in the middle.  No vocals, just pure creative instrumentation.  

"Caroline, No" - The album ends with the first ever Brian Wilson single, because he's the only one singing on the album.  He wrote it about all the girls he had known that grow up to be total bitches.  It was originally called "Carol, I Know" but Brian didn't hear the hook right from Tony Asher, who co-wrote it with him... so he sang it "Caroline, No".  So, you take a great lyric, "Carol, I Know", and give it to Brian Wilson, and by ACCIDENT, sheer luck, he comes up with an UNBELIEVABLE lyric, "Caroline, No"... so now, instead of

"What happened to that special glow... oh, Carol, I Know"

you have Brian Wilson singing

"What happened to that special glow... oh, Caroline, No"

GENIUS

This album is nearly flawless, and the finest example of creativity, and talent in the songwriting process that the world has ever seen, bar none.  You say Brian isn't even close to Mozart or Beethoven, ask a musician about that, and you'll get an eye opener.  Brian (as well as Paul McCartney) will go down in history as Beethoven and Mozart's peers.  That's not an opinion, that's fact if you ask someone who knows music.  To tell me that the Who display the same amount of songwriting ability as Brian Wilson, a true, living, musical genius, just shows your incredible ignorance on the subject.  No offense, everybody's ignorant of something.  I'm ignorant of the purpose of modesty, and the fault of arrogance.

[NobodyButMe]

^^^ wow.

anyways, i didn't know he was the father of that chick in 'wilson phillips'

[Trauma-san]

Yeah... Carnie & Wendy were his two daughters from his first marriage.  In the 70's, after he was nuttier than a loon, and heavily into drugs, one of his drug buddies was John Phillips, the lead singer of the Mama's and the Papa's.  The Mama's and the Papa's were composed of John Phillips and his young wife, Michelle Phillips, Denny Dougherty, and Mama Cass Elliott.  Anyways, John used to come around all the time to smoke dope with Brian, and he'd bring Michie & his little girl, Chyna Phillips.  Chyna would play with Carnie & Wendy, and the three of them have been best friends since they were basically born.  So Wilson Phillips is

Carnie Wilson
Wendy Wilson
Chyna Phillips

[Storm]

I didn't read anything you guys just wrote. but didnt Brian Wilson go psycho after he heard St. Peppers cause he knew he couldnt compete with that album? Sorry if im repeating what you wrote. peace

ps. watch the Talking Heads DVD

[Suffice]

is it just me or has Trauma undergone some drastic changes in the past couple months? Did u turn hippie? did u become a Scientologyst? Or did u finally come out of the closet?

[Shallow]

Wow you mean to tell me that Brian Wilson had absolutely no knowledge of reading or writing music and he could still write compositions on paper. You said he was a genius, he’s way more than that, he’s a fucking messiah. Why have I been wasting my time with Jesus all these years? Well no more of that, because I’ve found Brian Wilson.

It isn’t that hard to teach yourself music (at least it wasn’t for the pop stars of the century). I don’t think any of the major song writers of the past 50 years had any formal training with music. I know for a fact that Bob Dylan taught himself.

But let’s forget about all this shit, alright. Did you read my entire post? Because if you did then you’re an idiot. I clearly stated that music is completely subjective and that one thing absolutely cannot be “better” than another. It’s all a matter of taste and opinion.

I took a while to reply to your absurd post because I was listening to Pet Sounds all week, and to tell you the truth I wasn’t even going to reply, because your post didn’t deserve a reply. But I’m not replying to you and I don’t even care if you read this. This post here is for anyone out there who may have been persuaded by your propaganda. SO ANYONE THAT DOESN’T ALREADY GET IT, LISTEN TO THESE WORDS; ART CANNOT BE MEASURED OBJECTIVELY. BRIAN WILSON IS NOT A GENIUS; HE’S JUST A MUSICAIN THAT SMILE HAPPENS TO LIKE A LOT.

Artists aren’t geniuses just because they move you emotionally. Isaac Newton was a genius, and Mozart was one because his high level of mind capacity, not because his ability to speak from the heavens. Speaking of Mozart, you actually think that Wilson will be regarded as one of his peers? You really are stupid. 40 years later and Wilson is predominantly remembered for making surf music popular. How the fuck do you figure that he’ll be seen as Mozart quality in 200 years? I’m not even comparing the two. I’m just being logical and determining that the public historical view of Wilson will never rival that of Mozart’s. You call my opinion of music fucked because I like Bruce, when you think like this.

You can promote Pet Sounds all you want. I listened to it for a God damned week and I just don’t feel what you feel. Does that make the album bad? No. But for you to call it the absolute greatest is ridiculous. You can very well say that it is your favorite, but you don’t do that. You think you can somehow prove that it is better, when it cannot be proven.

I’m not denying it’s a classic, because in my opinion it is, but so are a lot of albums. “It does well in Europe”, so what? Robbie Williams is an international superstar, is he a genius? Look at Pink Floyd’s “Dark Side of the Moon”; it stayed in the world wide billboard top ten for like 14 years, it’s regarded by publications everywhere in the world as a masterpiece, it’s considered by most as the greatest produced album ever. What by your merits makes it any worse than Pet Sounds? I’ll tell you. You like Pet Sounds better. Others like Dark Side better. It’s no big deal, it’s only music and it’s just an opinion.

But let’s get back to Brian Wilson for a second; because you not only speak of his album, you speak of his personal genius. Rolling Stone did a recent list of the top 50 artists of all time. This list was not picked by the magazine. It was compiled by various voters. The voters consisted of artists, producers, and critics from all over the world. The Beatles were number one and Bob Dylan was number two, followed by Elvis. John Lennon was 38. Brian Wilson did not make the list, and the Beach Boys were number 12. So right there you have the industry pick 11 artists before Wilson’s group. The way you talk about him you’d think they’d be at the very least number two, but they weren’t. I personally don’t care much for the list or lists in general, but you said that the professionals consider Wilson as this great genius that can only be matched by the Beatles, and then you went so far as to put down Bob Dylan. Well the industry disagrees with you. And for the record Springsteen was number 23 and Michael Jackson was 35, sorry had to get that in there.

All I wanted to get across with this post was that music has no definite merit to which it can be judged. You seemed to think otherwise, and claimed that the industry is the absolute judge. Well my previous paragraph shows that Wilson isn’t top 5 on everyone’s list. Is he your personal favorite? Obviously he is, and that’s fine. The problem is when you try and prove that he is one of the best and persuade these poor young west coast rap fans to agree with you. I don’t know how many, if any, people read your posts and fall victim to your ballyhoo, but even if it’s only one person it is my duty as a human being to show him, or her, the truth. And the truth is that we are all entitled to our opinions of art, and no one opinion is better than another.

Just admit you’re wrong. You don’t have to do it on the forum. You don’t have to private message me. Just look in the mirror and tell yourself “I am wrong, and I have no right to think that my opinions of subjective entities are any better than the opinions of others”. I hope you’ve read and learned from this, because I have. Now, repent and sin no more.

[Trauma-san]

I'm wrong.  I'm off to buy my Boss CD's now; now THERE'S a GENIUS. 

[Shallow]

I'm wrong.  I'm off to buy my Boss CD's now; now THERE'S a GENIUS. 

I never once said Bruce was a genius, so there is no need for your sarcastic remarks. Do I like Bruce better than Wilson? Yes. Would I say he is better than Wilson? No. Even if I were to compare the two, Brian Wilson will go down in history as a better artist than Springsteen. There is no denying that.


However sarcasm aside, you'd be doing yourself a great service by picking up some of his albums. Darkness on the Edge of Town is probably his best one. I plan on getting the new Wilson CD.

Be honest, how much Springsteen are you familiar with? Do you own any of his albums?

[Eddie G.]

I watched about half the video.  This guy seems pretty tite.

[Trauma-san]

I'm wrong.  I'm off to buy my Boss CD's now; now THERE'S a GENIUS. 

I never once said Bruce was a genius, so there is no need for your sarcastic remarks. Do I like Bruce better than Wilson? Yes. Would I say he is better than Wilson? No. Even if I were to compare the two, Brian Wilson will go down in history as a better artist than Springsteen. There is no denying that.


However sarcasm aside, you'd be doing yourself a great service by picking up some of his albums. Darkness on the Edge of Town is probably his best one. I plan on getting the new Wilson CD.

Be honest, how much Springsteen are you familiar with? Do you own any of his albums?

Yeah, I told you he was a genius. 

[Shallow]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You didn't answer my question.

[Trauma-san]

Yes, I own his albums.  WHAT THE FUCK DID I SAY?  People tell you what you want to hear and you don't believe it. 

[Shallow]

All you said was he was a genius, you didn't say which albums you owned or why you think he's a genius. You've told us so well why Wilson was a genius multiple times, so tell me what makes Bruce a genius.

For the record I don't need to hear that Bruce is a genius. I don't think he's a genius, I just really like his music. So you didn't tell me what I wanted to hear, because I didn't need to hear anything along the lines of Bruce's "greatness". I never had a problem with you putting the Boss down before, and I don't need to hear you praise him.