Spurs compared to 80's Lakers squads by...

[acbaylove]

i didnt say it was ONLY Kobe's fault, read back through the posts. But the way you guys make yourselves look is, your more Kobe fans then Laker fans. Why jock another man so much? What im sayin is, the Lakers had a very bad year last year...and until you FINALLY admitted Kobe contributed to the bad year....none of you would say it or admit it. THAT is what makes you look like dickriders. Obviously, the whole team is responsible. But last time i checked, Kobe is part of the team. There isnt this....Kobe won, the rest of the team lost. They all lost. My problem is just that. Like i said, if the team had a good season...you guys wouldnt run on here and give the "supporting cast" the credit, youd give Kobe the credit for being the team leader. But when they lost...no one on here wanted to admit that he was the "team leader", and a part of the losing. It was as much his fault as it was anyone else on that team. You guys need to quit putting him above the Lakers...and you wont look like dickriders.

Dont talk about me if you dont know me. I've always showed nuthing but love for our supporting cast. I'm the one who've had a Fisher avatar, a George avatar, and my heroes are Horry (my fav player in the 3peat Lakers), Harper, Shaw (i've a photo with him) and Fox. I loved them all, from Lue to Shaq. The Lakers won 3 rings and a half because of Phil Jackson + Shaq + Kobe + all the supporting cast. Last year, Lakers missed Phil Jackson + Shaq + all that supporting cast. It was just Kobe and a bunch of guys who werent even coached. Too easy to collapse that i cant blame nobody. I'm giving Kobe another chance to prove me he can lead the team with Phil and a better supporting cast, this year. Last year it was been just a wasted year in Kobe's career and in Lakers history. Kobe didnt do miracles. But he aint a Saint. He's human.

[acbaylove]

which is the reason i picked Lebron over Kobe. They are in the same exact position except Lebron was considered an MVP candidate last year...and Lebron has only played a couple years. The experiences Kobe is finally going through now...after how many years in the league...Lebron goes through in his second year.

What about the experience of winning 3 NBA titles?
What about the experience of playing 110+ NBA playoffs games?
LOL.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

question is, how many people on here arguing with you do u think are Lebron fans?  Im not at all. He's good, his game is good. But i still wouldnt watch a Cleveland game unless it was the only game on tv lol. So what does that have to do with anything? Im a Spurs fan, so i have no bias in a Kobe/Lebron argument. I could really careless about either one of em. But you see, that others...who dont cheer for Lebron OR Kobe feel. We seem to side with Lebron. Those siding with Kobe on here, Kobe fans. How can you not notice that?

I do. And it's cool. I dont change my opinion based on what other people thinks about the subject. I prefeer Kobe because it's 8 years i'm watching him playing, and i know what he can bring on the table. LeBron is another fantastic player, and MVP type of player. But i'm still supporting Kobe more, CAUSE i'm a Laker fan. I'm not here saying LeBron sux and Kobe is God. Both are on the same level, but Kobe did more (obviously) in the past PLUS he's a Laker. So i'm with him. It's like comparing Maradona with Pelè. It's not a blasphemy if you say Pelè was better. Feel me? They are on the same level. Then you choose one because of multiple (personal) reasons.

As far as next year, i agree...you guys will be better. I dont think a lot of people on here think differently. Will you guys win a championship? No. But youll be better then last year. My problem with you dickriders is that you dont EVER want to admit that maybe...just maybe, Kobe was part of the problem last year. If you guys had a decent season, it would have been "all praise to Kobe!". But with a shitty season its "Kobe had no help". Pick one, he's either the man on your team...or not. The man gets the credit in a win, and the blame in a loss. Accept it. HE is the so called team leader, and he lead his team to the second best record in LA.

Every player in the league playing in them Lakers -> worse season of his career. Kobe had his worse season of his career, imo. But it's not ONLY because of himself. It's ALSO because of the team. He aint no Shaq who can dominate the game. He's a SG. He NEEDS other player to win. Is it clear enought now?

In the "Lebron argument", the ONLY argument any kobe dickrider made in his defense is that he's accomplished so much more then Lebron. What has that been exactly? Championships. You guys discount Lebron as being equal to Kobe right now, because he didnt lead his team to the playoffs last year....well, newsflash! Neither did Kobe. This is why you guys sound ridiculous. Its about seeing things with a little deeper perspective then just "Kobe's #1!!" Im the one that said before, i wish the Lakers were good again. I wish they were at the top, with us. I like the rivalry. There are no real GOOD rivalries in the west as of right now. I guess ill just have to settle with championships until you guys sort your issues out 

The problem with LeBron is that the media made him an All-Star MVP calyber player BEFORE HE JOINED THE NBA! So he have to prove - like the without-Shaq Kobe - he's really "that" good. He's in the same exact position as Kobe.

i didnt say it was ONLY Kobe's fault, read back through the posts. But the way you guys make yourselves look is, your more Kobe fans then Laker fans. Why jock another man so much? What im sayin is, the Lakers had a very bad year last year...and until you FINALLY admitted Kobe contributed to the bad year....none of you would say it or admit it. THAT is what makes you look like dickriders. Obviously, the whole team is responsible. But last time i checked, Kobe is part of the team. There isnt this....Kobe won, the rest of the team lost. They all lost. My problem is just that. Like i said, if the team had a good season...you guys wouldnt run on here and give the "supporting cast" the credit, youd give Kobe the credit for being the team leader. But when they lost...no one on here wanted to admit that he was the "team leader", and a part of the losing. It was as much his fault as it was anyone else on that team. You guys need to quit putting him above the Lakers...and you wont look like dickriders.

More lies...Come season time, I always analyze every Laker player and how they contribute to the Lakers success (or failure). Last season was a disaster, I don't blame Kobe because no player in the world would have made a solid season out of what Kobe was dealt...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

The problem with LeBron is that the media made him an All-Star MVP calyber player BEFORE HE JOINED THE NBA! So he have to prove - like the without-Shaq Kobe - he's really "that" good. He's in the same exact position as Kobe.

which is the reason i picked Lebron over Kobe. They are in the same exact position except Lebron was considered an MVP candidate last year...and Lebron has only played a couple years. The experiences Kobe is finally going through now...after how many years in the league...Lebron goes through in his second year.

LMAO...More dumb comments. Vince Carter was MVP candidate in his second season, along with Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill. Please refrain from using invalid arguments.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

TeeRaySix9Teen what do you mean when you say Laker fans are biased? Spurs are the best team in the league right now, and they acquired two good role players this summer so they are even better than last year. Magic's comparision to the 80's Lakers was meant as a sign of respect to the actual Spurs, who looks as unbeatable as them Lakers. But obviously only the '80 Lakers will remain in the history of the NBA for the great quality of basketball and for their stars, it's pointless to argue it. Those Spurs are a great defensive team, who plays the best team game in the NBA (with the Pistons), and who have the most dominant player in the league (Duncan) and a lot of good players (Horry, Parker, Ginobili) and a great coach. Lakers are a rebuilding team. There's no need to compare the teams now. Oh, and Kobe is arguably the best SG in the game. It's pointless to argue about it too. Now please stop calling "us" biased Kobe dickryders.

im saying biased in THIS argument we're having. Not all laker fans across the country. my point is, when you have like 10 people who all say the same thing about the lakers and kobe...and its negative, but none of them are similiar in who they route for or who they support. at the same time, ONLY the laker fans here keep saying that Kobe is this basketball God...you dont see how one side is clearly making more sense then the other? I would call people fans, when they think a little bit more well rounded about their heroes lol. No ones perfect, and neither is Kobe. But for some reason, none of you will ever blame Kobe for anything that went wrong with the Lakers season last year...yet, will try and give him more credit then deserved when winning championships alongside Shaq.

Maybe it's because we've seen the Lakers more than people who only watch the NBA because of LeBron..

Last year Lakers sucked not because of Kobe, but because of a lot of things:
- a lack of defence on the perimeter: Atkins, T.Brown and Vujacic are clearly the worse defensive PG in the league. Kobe was named like half of a dozen time in the All NBA Defensive team, so.. i think i aint a dickryder if i state he's a good defender.
- a lack of depth in the bench: you go nowhere when Walton, Cook and Medvedenko are your secret weapons from the bench, lol.
- a lot of injuries: Kobe, Odom and Butler missed like 15-20 games, Grant wasted a year in his career, Divac too, George didnt play for 3/4 of the season, Malone retired, even the coach, Rudy T., retired. You go nowhere with a scenario like this one, expecially if it's already pretty hard for the team to reach the Play Offs in full effect.
- the lack of coaching: Rudy T. failed. That's it. Lakers played half of the season shooting more 3pts than FT's. And they had one of the worse defense in the whole NBA. Hamblen aint even a coach, so i'll not even waste my time talking about him.
- a psicological collapse: in the last 20 games Lakers pratically didnt play at all, loosing 95% of them. Once they went out of the Play Offs spots, they collapsed. Kobe didnt help, i can give you that, but it's stupid to blame everything on him. He was the leader, but he got injured too, so it was impossible to do more.
- a lack of big men: when Mihm is your starting center and Cook is the first option from the bench you got problem.
- Odom playing out of position: he's a point forward, not a power forward.

I can go on and on with the reasons..

You Lakers haters will just reply with stupid things like "Kobe got exposed", or "Kobe aint shit without Shaq" and "Kobe is a ballhog", etc.. I think things went in a different way, and i just explained you why. Don't call me a biased fan, cause i'm not. I see games. I see the problems. I recognize the problems. Last year, Kobe's performances in and off the court were the last problem Lakers had.

This year things changed:

- McKie, Smush Parker and eventually Spree are three good defensive players. An incredible big step from last year.
- the bench looks better now, with George back in full effect, with one between Spree and McKie, and with JJ who made a great season last year. It still aint deep enought, imho. But it's looking better then last year for sure.
- Phil Jackson, arguably the best coach in the NBA, is back in town. Plus we signed B.Shaw (the future head coach) and Kareem. And Tex Winter will back too.
- psycologically Phil is the best guy to give the Lakers credibility: just look at the Free Agency! Derek Anderson said he was affascinated by playing for Phil and his triangle. Same did Antonio Daniels. Same did Aaron McKie. Same did Spree's agent. Credibility.
- we acquired Kwame Brown and we selected #10 Andrew Bynum. Two guys we didnt have last season, and who are a big improvement over Cook and Medvedenko. Plus Turiaf is imo a good defender, a Mark Madsen type of player every team needs. We looks better this year, very better. We aint ok yet, but it's better than last year.
- Odom will play the triangle: the best system possible, for him. And he's the best player in the league for the system.

That's why i'm pretty optimistic about next year.

It's simple.. if next year we will sux, then it's official: let's blame Kobe! If things will go better, i say it's because of those things. Kobe dickryders will say it's only because of Kobe. Lakers haters will say it's only because of Phil.

That's how i feel about it.

question is, how many people on here arguing with you do u think are Lebron fans?  Im not at all. He's good, his game is good. But i still wouldnt watch a Cleveland game unless it was the only game on tv lol. So what does that have to do with anything? Im a Spurs fan, so i have no bias in a Kobe/Lebron argument. I could really careless about either one of em. But you see, that others...who dont cheer for Lebron OR Kobe feel. We seem to side with Lebron. Those siding with Kobe on here, Kobe fans. How can you not notice that?

As far as next year, i agree...you guys will be better. I dont think a lot of people on here think differently. Will you guys win a championship? No. But youll be better then last year. My problem with you dickriders is that you dont EVER want to admit that maybe...just maybe, Kobe was part of the problem last year. If you guys had a decent season, it would have been "all praise to Kobe!". But with a shitty season its "Kobe had no help". Pick one, he's either the man on your team...or not. The man gets the credit in a win, and the blame in a loss. Accept it. HE is the so called team leader, and he lead his team to the second best record in LA. In the "Lebron argument", the ONLY argument any kobe dickrider made in his defense is that he's accomplished so much more then Lebron. What has that been exactly? Championships. You guys discount Lebron as being equal to Kobe right now, because he didnt lead his team to the playoffs last year....well, newsflash! Neither did Kobe. This is why you guys sound ridiculous. Its about seeing things with a little deeper perspective then just "Kobe's #1!!" Im the one that said before, i wish the Lakers were good again. I wish they were at the top, with us. I like the rivalry. There are no real GOOD rivalries in the west as of right now. I guess ill just have to settle with championships until you guys sort your issues out 

Let me ask you an honest question. How many players in the league do you honestly think would have led the Lakers to the playoffs being placed in Kobe's exact situation last season...I'd say about...Ummm...Zero.

This is where you guys look like hypocrits. When we compared Lebron and Kobe we said that there was obviously no way Kobe could have done what Lebron did in his first year or two. Kobe couldnt even come of the bench and be consistent...let alone lead a team. You guys said there was no way to know what Kobe would have done if he was needed to lead a team like Lebron did because we'd just be guessing. Now...you want to GUESS that no player put in Kobe's position last year could lead them to the playoffs lol. Pick a side and stick with it NIK. As for your question, i dont know who could have lead them to the playoffs. Id say theres a few bigmen that could have based on the attention a bigman draws and the ability to get other plays involved. Id say Iverson has lead some pretty shitty teams to the playoffs. So who knows. But whats the point in goin back and forth on that? You think Kobe is God...obviously there is no one above God in your mind. Maybe all of your guys Kobe related topics should be posted in TOT. lol

Damn, what's with you and lying? Is that the only way to make yourself seem somewhat credible? I don't thik Kobe is God, I think Kobe is the best baller in the league...Stop repeating the same shit when you have nothing to say...PeACe

[TeeRaySix9Teen]

i didnt say it was ONLY Kobe's fault, read back through the posts. But the way you guys make yourselves look is, your more Kobe fans then Laker fans. Why jock another man so much? What im sayin is, the Lakers had a very bad year last year...and until you FINALLY admitted Kobe contributed to the bad year....none of you would say it or admit it. THAT is what makes you look like dickriders. Obviously, the whole team is responsible. But last time i checked, Kobe is part of the team. There isnt this....Kobe won, the rest of the team lost. They all lost. My problem is just that. Like i said, if the team had a good season...you guys wouldnt run on here and give the "supporting cast" the credit, youd give Kobe the credit for being the team leader. But when they lost...no one on here wanted to admit that he was the "team leader", and a part of the losing. It was as much his fault as it was anyone else on that team. You guys need to quit putting him above the Lakers...and you wont look like dickriders.

Dont talk about me if you dont know me. I've always showed nuthing but love for our supporting cast. I'm the one who've had a Fisher avatar, a George avatar, and my heroes are Horry (my fav player in the 3peat Lakers), Harper, Shaw (i've a photo with him) and Fox. I loved them all, from Lue to Shaq. The Lakers won 3 rings and a half because of Phil Jackson + Shaq + Kobe + all the supporting cast. Last year, Lakers missed Phil Jackson + Shaq + all that supporting cast. It was just Kobe and a bunch of guys who werent even coached. Too easy to collapse that i cant blame nobody. I'm giving Kobe another chance to prove me he can lead the team with Phil and a better supporting cast, this year. Last year it was been just a wasted year in Kobe's career and in Lakers history. Kobe didnt do miracles. But he aint a Saint. He's human.

lol championships come in whole numbers man....its either 3....or 4. they won 3.

[TeeRaySix9Teen]

which is the reason i picked Lebron over Kobe. They are in the same exact position except Lebron was considered an MVP candidate last year...and Lebron has only played a couple years. The experiences Kobe is finally going through now...after how many years in the league...Lebron goes through in his second year.

What about the experience of winning 3 NBA titles?
What about the experience of playing 110+ NBA playoffs games?
LOL.

how many titles did Kobe win by his second season? How many has he won without the man claimed by YOU GUYS as the most dominant player ever? obviously those were great experiences for Kobe, but he didnt experience them as the teams leader. NOW, he is finally the "leader"...as is Lebron. Only difference, the age...so Lebron is doing it earlier

[TeeRaySix9Teen]

question is, how many people on here arguing with you do u think are Lebron fans?  Im not at all. He's good, his game is good. But i still wouldnt watch a Cleveland game unless it was the only game on tv lol. So what does that have to do with anything? Im a Spurs fan, so i have no bias in a Kobe/Lebron argument. I could really careless about either one of em. But you see, that others...who dont cheer for Lebron OR Kobe feel. We seem to side with Lebron. Those siding with Kobe on here, Kobe fans. How can you not notice that?

I do. And it's cool. I dont change my opinion based on what other people thinks about the subject. I prefeer Kobe because it's 8 years i'm watching him playing, and i know what he can bring on the table. LeBron is another fantastic player, and MVP type of player. But i'm still supporting Kobe more, CAUSE i'm a Laker fan. I'm not here saying LeBron sux and Kobe is God. Both are on the same level, but Kobe did more (obviously) in the past PLUS he's a Laker. So i'm with him. It's like comparing Maradona with Pelè. It's not a blasphemy if you say Pelè was better. Feel me? They are on the same level. Then you choose one because of multiple (personal) reasons.

As far as next year, i agree...you guys will be better. I dont think a lot of people on here think differently. Will you guys win a championship? No. But youll be better then last year. My problem with you dickriders is that you dont EVER want to admit that maybe...just maybe, Kobe was part of the problem last year. If you guys had a decent season, it would have been "all praise to Kobe!". But with a shitty season its "Kobe had no help". Pick one, he's either the man on your team...or not. The man gets the credit in a win, and the blame in a loss. Accept it. HE is the so called team leader, and he lead his team to the second best record in LA.

Every player in the league playing in them Lakers -> worse season of his career. Kobe had his worse season of his career, imo. But it's not ONLY because of himself. It's ALSO because of the team. He aint no Shaq who can dominate the game. He's a SG. He NEEDS other player to win. Is it clear enought now?

In the "Lebron argument", the ONLY argument any kobe dickrider made in his defense is that he's accomplished so much more then Lebron. What has that been exactly? Championships. You guys discount Lebron as being equal to Kobe right now, because he didnt lead his team to the playoffs last year....well, newsflash! Neither did Kobe. This is why you guys sound ridiculous. Its about seeing things with a little deeper perspective then just "Kobe's #1!!" Im the one that said before, i wish the Lakers were good again. I wish they were at the top, with us. I like the rivalry. There are no real GOOD rivalries in the west as of right now. I guess ill just have to settle with championships until you guys sort your issues out 

The problem with LeBron is that the media made him an All-Star MVP calyber player BEFORE HE JOINED THE NBA! So he have to prove - like the without-Shaq Kobe - he's really "that" good. He's in the same exact position as Kobe.

i didnt say it was ONLY Kobe's fault, read back through the posts. But the way you guys make yourselves look is, your more Kobe fans then Laker fans. Why jock another man so much? What im sayin is, the Lakers had a very bad year last year...and until you FINALLY admitted Kobe contributed to the bad year....none of you would say it or admit it. THAT is what makes you look like dickriders. Obviously, the whole team is responsible. But last time i checked, Kobe is part of the team. There isnt this....Kobe won, the rest of the team lost. They all lost. My problem is just that. Like i said, if the team had a good season...you guys wouldnt run on here and give the "supporting cast" the credit, youd give Kobe the credit for being the team leader. But when they lost...no one on here wanted to admit that he was the "team leader", and a part of the losing. It was as much his fault as it was anyone else on that team. You guys need to quit putting him above the Lakers...and you wont look like dickriders.

More lies...Come season time, I always analyze every Laker player and how they contribute to the Lakers success (or failure). Last season was a disaster, I don't blame Kobe because no player in the world would have made a solid season out of what Kobe was dealt...PeACe

you guys are so slow lol. So...in your eyes, Kobe is bigger then the Lakers. I have a different mentality then you guys i guess. IMO, you win together...you lose together. The Lakers either ALL win...or they ALL lose. No exceptions. I would hope that Kobe understands that more then you guys do.

[TeeRaySix9Teen]

The problem with LeBron is that the media made him an All-Star MVP calyber player BEFORE HE JOINED THE NBA! So he have to prove - like the without-Shaq Kobe - he's really "that" good. He's in the same exact position as Kobe.

which is the reason i picked Lebron over Kobe. They are in the same exact position except Lebron was considered an MVP candidate last year...and Lebron has only played a couple years. The experiences Kobe is finally going through now...after how many years in the league...Lebron goes through in his second year.

LMAO...More dumb comments. Vince Carter was MVP candidate in his second season, along with Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill. Please refrain from using invalid arguments.

Last time i checked, i didnt compare Carter, Hardaway, or Hill to anyone in this argument. Try to stay on track here. If there was an "invalid argument" its you bringin up those three.

[TeeRaySix9Teen]

TeeRaySix9Teen what do you mean when you say Laker fans are biased? Spurs are the best team in the league right now, and they acquired two good role players this summer so they are even better than last year. Magic's comparision to the 80's Lakers was meant as a sign of respect to the actual Spurs, who looks as unbeatable as them Lakers. But obviously only the '80 Lakers will remain in the history of the NBA for the great quality of basketball and for their stars, it's pointless to argue it. Those Spurs are a great defensive team, who plays the best team game in the NBA (with the Pistons), and who have the most dominant player in the league (Duncan) and a lot of good players (Horry, Parker, Ginobili) and a great coach. Lakers are a rebuilding team. There's no need to compare the teams now. Oh, and Kobe is arguably the best SG in the game. It's pointless to argue about it too. Now please stop calling "us" biased Kobe dickryders.

im saying biased in THIS argument we're having. Not all laker fans across the country. my point is, when you have like 10 people who all say the same thing about the lakers and kobe...and its negative, but none of them are similiar in who they route for or who they support. at the same time, ONLY the laker fans here keep saying that Kobe is this basketball God...you dont see how one side is clearly making more sense then the other? I would call people fans, when they think a little bit more well rounded about their heroes lol. No ones perfect, and neither is Kobe. But for some reason, none of you will ever blame Kobe for anything that went wrong with the Lakers season last year...yet, will try and give him more credit then deserved when winning championships alongside Shaq.

Maybe it's because we've seen the Lakers more than people who only watch the NBA because of LeBron..

Last year Lakers sucked not because of Kobe, but because of a lot of things:
- a lack of defence on the perimeter: Atkins, T.Brown and Vujacic are clearly the worse defensive PG in the league. Kobe was named like half of a dozen time in the All NBA Defensive team, so.. i think i aint a dickryder if i state he's a good defender.
- a lack of depth in the bench: you go nowhere when Walton, Cook and Medvedenko are your secret weapons from the bench, lol.
- a lot of injuries: Kobe, Odom and Butler missed like 15-20 games, Grant wasted a year in his career, Divac too, George didnt play for 3/4 of the season, Malone retired, even the coach, Rudy T., retired. You go nowhere with a scenario like this one, expecially if it's already pretty hard for the team to reach the Play Offs in full effect.
- the lack of coaching: Rudy T. failed. That's it. Lakers played half of the season shooting more 3pts than FT's. And they had one of the worse defense in the whole NBA. Hamblen aint even a coach, so i'll not even waste my time talking about him.
- a psicological collapse: in the last 20 games Lakers pratically didnt play at all, loosing 95% of them. Once they went out of the Play Offs spots, they collapsed. Kobe didnt help, i can give you that, but it's stupid to blame everything on him. He was the leader, but he got injured too, so it was impossible to do more.
- a lack of big men: when Mihm is your starting center and Cook is the first option from the bench you got problem.
- Odom playing out of position: he's a point forward, not a power forward.

I can go on and on with the reasons..

You Lakers haters will just reply with stupid things like "Kobe got exposed", or "Kobe aint shit without Shaq" and "Kobe is a ballhog", etc.. I think things went in a different way, and i just explained you why. Don't call me a biased fan, cause i'm not. I see games. I see the problems. I recognize the problems. Last year, Kobe's performances in and off the court were the last problem Lakers had.

This year things changed:

- McKie, Smush Parker and eventually Spree are three good defensive players. An incredible big step from last year.
- the bench looks better now, with George back in full effect, with one between Spree and McKie, and with JJ who made a great season last year. It still aint deep enought, imho. But it's looking better then last year for sure.
- Phil Jackson, arguably the best coach in the NBA, is back in town. Plus we signed B.Shaw (the future head coach) and Kareem. And Tex Winter will back too.
- psycologically Phil is the best guy to give the Lakers credibility: just look at the Free Agency! Derek Anderson said he was affascinated by playing for Phil and his triangle. Same did Antonio Daniels. Same did Aaron McKie. Same did Spree's agent. Credibility.
- we acquired Kwame Brown and we selected #10 Andrew Bynum. Two guys we didnt have last season, and who are a big improvement over Cook and Medvedenko. Plus Turiaf is imo a good defender, a Mark Madsen type of player every team needs. We looks better this year, very better. We aint ok yet, but it's better than last year.
- Odom will play the triangle: the best system possible, for him. And he's the best player in the league for the system.

That's why i'm pretty optimistic about next year.

It's simple.. if next year we will sux, then it's official: let's blame Kobe! If things will go better, i say it's because of those things. Kobe dickryders will say it's only because of Kobe. Lakers haters will say it's only because of Phil.

That's how i feel about it.

question is, how many people on here arguing with you do u think are Lebron fans?  Im not at all. He's good, his game is good. But i still wouldnt watch a Cleveland game unless it was the only game on tv lol. So what does that have to do with anything? Im a Spurs fan, so i have no bias in a Kobe/Lebron argument. I could really careless about either one of em. But you see, that others...who dont cheer for Lebron OR Kobe feel. We seem to side with Lebron. Those siding with Kobe on here, Kobe fans. How can you not notice that?

As far as next year, i agree...you guys will be better. I dont think a lot of people on here think differently. Will you guys win a championship? No. But youll be better then last year. My problem with you dickriders is that you dont EVER want to admit that maybe...just maybe, Kobe was part of the problem last year. If you guys had a decent season, it would have been "all praise to Kobe!". But with a shitty season its "Kobe had no help". Pick one, he's either the man on your team...or not. The man gets the credit in a win, and the blame in a loss. Accept it. HE is the so called team leader, and he lead his team to the second best record in LA. In the "Lebron argument", the ONLY argument any kobe dickrider made in his defense is that he's accomplished so much more then Lebron. What has that been exactly? Championships. You guys discount Lebron as being equal to Kobe right now, because he didnt lead his team to the playoffs last year....well, newsflash! Neither did Kobe. This is why you guys sound ridiculous. Its about seeing things with a little deeper perspective then just "Kobe's #1!!" Im the one that said before, i wish the Lakers were good again. I wish they were at the top, with us. I like the rivalry. There are no real GOOD rivalries in the west as of right now. I guess ill just have to settle with championships until you guys sort your issues out 

Let me ask you an honest question. How many players in the league do you honestly think would have led the Lakers to the playoffs being placed in Kobe's exact situation last season...I'd say about...Ummm...Zero.

This is where you guys look like hypocrits. When we compared Lebron and Kobe we said that there was obviously no way Kobe could have done what Lebron did in his first year or two. Kobe couldnt even come of the bench and be consistent...let alone lead a team. You guys said there was no way to know what Kobe would have done if he was needed to lead a team like Lebron did because we'd just be guessing. Now...you want to GUESS that no player put in Kobe's position last year could lead them to the playoffs lol. Pick a side and stick with it NIK. As for your question, i dont know who could have lead them to the playoffs. Id say theres a few bigmen that could have based on the attention a bigman draws and the ability to get other plays involved. Id say Iverson has lead some pretty shitty teams to the playoffs. So who knows. But whats the point in goin back and forth on that? You think Kobe is God...obviously there is no one above God in your mind. Maybe all of your guys Kobe related topics should be posted in TOT. lol

Damn, what's with you and lying? Is that the only way to make yourself seem somewhat credible? I don't thik Kobe is God, I think Kobe is the best baller in the league...Stop repeating the same shit when you have nothing to say...PeACe

Figure it out retard lol. You guys act like he's God....for you guys, he must be. Or youre just in love, one of two. Kobe could rape your mom tomorrow...and he'd still be your favorite player in the world. You love him...deal with it. I dont understand the attachment really...but he, its a free country....do whatcha do man. In case you havent already gotten this, this argument is gettin really stale. Like i said, its like arguin evolution to a bunch of twisted religious nuts. Either way it goes...hope you guys improve next year to actually makin the playoffs so we can see exactly HOW fast San Antonio can sweep your ass 

[acbaylove]

which is the reason i picked Lebron over Kobe. They are in the same exact position except Lebron was considered an MVP candidate last year...and Lebron has only played a couple years. The experiences Kobe is finally going through now...after how many years in the league...Lebron goes through in his second year.

What about the experience of winning 3 NBA titles?
What about the experience of playing 110+ NBA playoffs games?
LOL.

how many titles did Kobe win by his second season? How many has he won without the man claimed by YOU GUYS as the most dominant player ever? obviously those were great experiences for Kobe, but he didnt experience them as the teams leader. NOW, he is finally the "leader"...as is Lebron. Only difference, the age...so Lebron is doing it earlier

LMAO. Earlier? Okafor was the "leader" of Charlotte since he got drafted. I guess he's at the same level of Kobe too? You have no point. Put a 25 years old Shaq in the Cavs and LeBron will be supporting cast to Shaq. Get it. Face it. Out.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

question is, how many people on here arguing with you do u think are Lebron fans?  Im not at all. He's good, his game is good. But i still wouldnt watch a Cleveland game unless it was the only game on tv lol. So what does that have to do with anything? Im a Spurs fan, so i have no bias in a Kobe/Lebron argument. I could really careless about either one of em. But you see, that others...who dont cheer for Lebron OR Kobe feel. We seem to side with Lebron. Those siding with Kobe on here, Kobe fans. How can you not notice that?

I do. And it's cool. I dont change my opinion based on what other people thinks about the subject. I prefeer Kobe because it's 8 years i'm watching him playing, and i know what he can bring on the table. LeBron is another fantastic player, and MVP type of player. But i'm still supporting Kobe more, CAUSE i'm a Laker fan. I'm not here saying LeBron sux and Kobe is God. Both are on the same level, but Kobe did more (obviously) in the past PLUS he's a Laker. So i'm with him. It's like comparing Maradona with Pelè. It's not a blasphemy if you say Pelè was better. Feel me? They are on the same level. Then you choose one because of multiple (personal) reasons.

As far as next year, i agree...you guys will be better. I dont think a lot of people on here think differently. Will you guys win a championship? No. But youll be better then last year. My problem with you dickriders is that you dont EVER want to admit that maybe...just maybe, Kobe was part of the problem last year. If you guys had a decent season, it would have been "all praise to Kobe!". But with a shitty season its "Kobe had no help". Pick one, he's either the man on your team...or not. The man gets the credit in a win, and the blame in a loss. Accept it. HE is the so called team leader, and he lead his team to the second best record in LA.

Every player in the league playing in them Lakers -> worse season of his career. Kobe had his worse season of his career, imo. But it's not ONLY because of himself. It's ALSO because of the team. He aint no Shaq who can dominate the game. He's a SG. He NEEDS other player to win. Is it clear enought now?

In the "Lebron argument", the ONLY argument any kobe dickrider made in his defense is that he's accomplished so much more then Lebron. What has that been exactly? Championships. You guys discount Lebron as being equal to Kobe right now, because he didnt lead his team to the playoffs last year....well, newsflash! Neither did Kobe. This is why you guys sound ridiculous. Its about seeing things with a little deeper perspective then just "Kobe's #1!!" Im the one that said before, i wish the Lakers were good again. I wish they were at the top, with us. I like the rivalry. There are no real GOOD rivalries in the west as of right now. I guess ill just have to settle with championships until you guys sort your issues out 

The problem with LeBron is that the media made him an All-Star MVP calyber player BEFORE HE JOINED THE NBA! So he have to prove - like the without-Shaq Kobe - he's really "that" good. He's in the same exact position as Kobe.

i didnt say it was ONLY Kobe's fault, read back through the posts. But the way you guys make yourselves look is, your more Kobe fans then Laker fans. Why jock another man so much? What im sayin is, the Lakers had a very bad year last year...and until you FINALLY admitted Kobe contributed to the bad year....none of you would say it or admit it. THAT is what makes you look like dickriders. Obviously, the whole team is responsible. But last time i checked, Kobe is part of the team. There isnt this....Kobe won, the rest of the team lost. They all lost. My problem is just that. Like i said, if the team had a good season...you guys wouldnt run on here and give the "supporting cast" the credit, youd give Kobe the credit for being the team leader. But when they lost...no one on here wanted to admit that he was the "team leader", and a part of the losing. It was as much his fault as it was anyone else on that team. You guys need to quit putting him above the Lakers...and you wont look like dickriders.

More lies...Come season time, I always analyze every Laker player and how they contribute to the Lakers success (or failure). Last season was a disaster, I don't blame Kobe because no player in the world would have made a solid season out of what Kobe was dealt...PeACe

you guys are so slow lol. So...in your eyes, Kobe is bigger then the Lakers. I have a different mentality then you guys i guess. IMO, you win together...you lose together. The Lakers either ALL win...or they ALL lose. No exceptions. I would hope that Kobe understands that more then you guys do.

That has nothing to do with what I said...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

The problem with LeBron is that the media made him an All-Star MVP calyber player BEFORE HE JOINED THE NBA! So he have to prove - like the without-Shaq Kobe - he's really "that" good. He's in the same exact position as Kobe.

which is the reason i picked Lebron over Kobe. They are in the same exact position except Lebron was considered an MVP candidate last year...and Lebron has only played a couple years. The experiences Kobe is finally going through now...after how many years in the league...Lebron goes through in his second year.

LMAO...More dumb comments. Vince Carter was MVP candidate in his second season, along with Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill. Please refrain from using invalid arguments.

Last time i checked, i didnt compare Carter, Hardaway, or Hill to anyone in this argument. Try to stay on track here. If there was an "invalid argument" its you bringin up those three.

You're saying LeBron is better than Kobe because he was an MVP caliber player by his second year...I named you 3 players who were in the same situation as LeBron, but are bnot even 50 greatest material...I've completely discredited what you said. Understand now?

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

TeeRaySix9Teen what do you mean when you say Laker fans are biased? Spurs are the best team in the league right now, and they acquired two good role players this summer so they are even better than last year. Magic's comparision to the 80's Lakers was meant as a sign of respect to the actual Spurs, who looks as unbeatable as them Lakers. But obviously only the '80 Lakers will remain in the history of the NBA for the great quality of basketball and for their stars, it's pointless to argue it. Those Spurs are a great defensive team, who plays the best team game in the NBA (with the Pistons), and who have the most dominant player in the league (Duncan) and a lot of good players (Horry, Parker, Ginobili) and a great coach. Lakers are a rebuilding team. There's no need to compare the teams now. Oh, and Kobe is arguably the best SG in the game. It's pointless to argue about it too. Now please stop calling "us" biased Kobe dickryders.

im saying biased in THIS argument we're having. Not all laker fans across the country. my point is, when you have like 10 people who all say the same thing about the lakers and kobe...and its negative, but none of them are similiar in who they route for or who they support. at the same time, ONLY the laker fans here keep saying that Kobe is this basketball God...you dont see how one side is clearly making more sense then the other? I would call people fans, when they think a little bit more well rounded about their heroes lol. No ones perfect, and neither is Kobe. But for some reason, none of you will ever blame Kobe for anything that went wrong with the Lakers season last year...yet, will try and give him more credit then deserved when winning championships alongside Shaq.

Maybe it's because we've seen the Lakers more than people who only watch the NBA because of LeBron..

Last year Lakers sucked not because of Kobe, but because of a lot of things:
- a lack of defence on the perimeter: Atkins, T.Brown and Vujacic are clearly the worse defensive PG in the league. Kobe was named like half of a dozen time in the All NBA Defensive team, so.. i think i aint a dickryder if i state he's a good defender.
- a lack of depth in the bench: you go nowhere when Walton, Cook and Medvedenko are your secret weapons from the bench, lol.
- a lot of injuries: Kobe, Odom and Butler missed like 15-20 games, Grant wasted a year in his career, Divac too, George didnt play for 3/4 of the season, Malone retired, even the coach, Rudy T., retired. You go nowhere with a scenario like this one, expecially if it's already pretty hard for the team to reach the Play Offs in full effect.
- the lack of coaching: Rudy T. failed. That's it. Lakers played half of the season shooting more 3pts than FT's. And they had one of the worse defense in the whole NBA. Hamblen aint even a coach, so i'll not even waste my time talking about him.
- a psicological collapse: in the last 20 games Lakers pratically didnt play at all, loosing 95% of them. Once they went out of the Play Offs spots, they collapsed. Kobe didnt help, i can give you that, but it's stupid to blame everything on him. He was the leader, but he got injured too, so it was impossible to do more.
- a lack of big men: when Mihm is your starting center and Cook is the first option from the bench you got problem.
- Odom playing out of position: he's a point forward, not a power forward.

I can go on and on with the reasons..

You Lakers haters will just reply with stupid things like "Kobe got exposed", or "Kobe aint shit without Shaq" and "Kobe is a ballhog", etc.. I think things went in a different way, and i just explained you why. Don't call me a biased fan, cause i'm not. I see games. I see the problems. I recognize the problems. Last year, Kobe's performances in and off the court were the last problem Lakers had.

This year things changed:

- McKie, Smush Parker and eventually Spree are three good defensive players. An incredible big step from last year.
- the bench looks better now, with George back in full effect, with one between Spree and McKie, and with JJ who made a great season last year. It still aint deep enought, imho. But it's looking better then last year for sure.
- Phil Jackson, arguably the best coach in the NBA, is back in town. Plus we signed B.Shaw (the future head coach) and Kareem. And Tex Winter will back too.
- psycologically Phil is the best guy to give the Lakers credibility: just look at the Free Agency! Derek Anderson said he was affascinated by playing for Phil and his triangle. Same did Antonio Daniels. Same did Aaron McKie. Same did Spree's agent. Credibility.
- we acquired Kwame Brown and we selected #10 Andrew Bynum. Two guys we didnt have last season, and who are a big improvement over Cook and Medvedenko. Plus Turiaf is imo a good defender, a Mark Madsen type of player every team needs. We looks better this year, very better. We aint ok yet, but it's better than last year.
- Odom will play the triangle: the best system possible, for him. And he's the best player in the league for the system.

That's why i'm pretty optimistic about next year.

It's simple.. if next year we will sux, then it's official: let's blame Kobe! If things will go better, i say it's because of those things. Kobe dickryders will say it's only because of Kobe. Lakers haters will say it's only because of Phil.

That's how i feel about it.

question is, how many people on here arguing with you do u think are Lebron fans?  Im not at all. He's good, his game is good. But i still wouldnt watch a Cleveland game unless it was the only game on tv lol. So what does that have to do with anything? Im a Spurs fan, so i have no bias in a Kobe/Lebron argument. I could really careless about either one of em. But you see, that others...who dont cheer for Lebron OR Kobe feel. We seem to side with Lebron. Those siding with Kobe on here, Kobe fans. How can you not notice that?

As far as next year, i agree...you guys will be better. I dont think a lot of people on here think differently. Will you guys win a championship? No. But youll be better then last year. My problem with you dickriders is that you dont EVER want to admit that maybe...just maybe, Kobe was part of the problem last year. If you guys had a decent season, it would have been "all praise to Kobe!". But with a shitty season its "Kobe had no help". Pick one, he's either the man on your team...or not. The man gets the credit in a win, and the blame in a loss. Accept it. HE is the so called team leader, and he lead his team to the second best record in LA. In the "Lebron argument", the ONLY argument any kobe dickrider made in his defense is that he's accomplished so much more then Lebron. What has that been exactly? Championships. You guys discount Lebron as being equal to Kobe right now, because he didnt lead his team to the playoffs last year....well, newsflash! Neither did Kobe. This is why you guys sound ridiculous. Its about seeing things with a little deeper perspective then just "Kobe's #1!!" Im the one that said before, i wish the Lakers were good again. I wish they were at the top, with us. I like the rivalry. There are no real GOOD rivalries in the west as of right now. I guess ill just have to settle with championships until you guys sort your issues out 

Let me ask you an honest question. How many players in the league do you honestly think would have led the Lakers to the playoffs being placed in Kobe's exact situation last season...I'd say about...Ummm...Zero.

This is where you guys look like hypocrits. When we compared Lebron and Kobe we said that there was obviously no way Kobe could have done what Lebron did in his first year or two. Kobe couldnt even come of the bench and be consistent...let alone lead a team. You guys said there was no way to know what Kobe would have done if he was needed to lead a team like Lebron did because we'd just be guessing. Now...you want to GUESS that no player put in Kobe's position last year could lead them to the playoffs lol. Pick a side and stick with it NIK. As for your question, i dont know who could have lead them to the playoffs. Id say theres a few bigmen that could have based on the attention a bigman draws and the ability to get other plays involved. Id say Iverson has lead some pretty shitty teams to the playoffs. So who knows. But whats the point in goin back and forth on that? You think Kobe is God...obviously there is no one above God in your mind. Maybe all of your guys Kobe related topics should be posted in TOT. lol

Damn, what's with you and lying? Is that the only way to make yourself seem somewhat credible? I don't thik Kobe is God, I think Kobe is the best baller in the league...Stop repeating the same shit when you have nothing to say...PeACe

Figure it out retard lol. You guys act like he's God....for you guys, he must be. Or youre just in love, one of two. Kobe could rape your mom tomorrow...and he'd still be your favorite player in the world. You love him...deal with it. I dont understand the attachment really...but he, its a free country....do whatcha do man. In case you havent already gotten this, this argument is gettin really stale. Like i said, its like arguin evolution to a bunch of twisted religious nuts. Either way it goes...hope you guys improve next year to actually makin the playoffs so we can see exactly HOW fast San Antonio can sweep your ass 

Oh, yes, all who believe Kobe is the best player in the league are sooooo in love with Kobe foooolzzzz!...Make sense, you dumbshit.