Author Topic: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout  (Read 5235 times)

The Watcher

Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #105 on: April 19, 2007, 12:29:36 AM »
wow

on CNN there are people saying 'if america has less strenuous gun laws, and everyone carried a gun, this may have never happened'

americans are fuckin retarded, you guys really think like that?

we had a massacre here in 1996, 35 dead, the guy had a 98% hit accuracy on head shots. we had a gun amnesty and people had to hand in all their guns (except for ones being left at a shooting range) and now we haven't had a massacre since
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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #106 on: April 19, 2007, 02:16:25 AM »
wow

on CNN there are people saying 'if america has less strenuous gun laws, and everyone carried a gun, this may have never happened'

americans are fuckin retarded, you guys really think like that?



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AndrE16686

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #107 on: April 19, 2007, 05:41:59 AM »
wow

on CNN there are people saying 'if america has less strenuous gun laws, and everyone carried a gun, this may have never happened'

americans are fuckin retarded, you guys really think like that?

we had a massacre here in 1996, 35 dead, the guy had a 98% hit accuracy on head shots. we had a gun amnesty and people had to hand in all their guns (except for ones being left at a shooting range) and now we haven't had a massacre since


word.

Australia rules. Plus you can still have handguns if you want, just get it registered and you have to have it locked in a safe in your car and when at your house. And if someone steals your safe key, steals your glock from the safe and shoots up the local deli, you can be charged with manslaughter.
 

virtuoso

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #108 on: April 19, 2007, 06:51:09 AM »
The point is absolutely true, guns are legal to carry in the state of virginia anyway and so therefore if guns were allowed on campus in Virginia Tech, like they are in Florida campuses also, then this person would have been killed. If someone is that intent on killing, then turning campuses into a prison like environment will not prevent another massacre all it achieve is to normalise people being treated as prisoners/suspects.

Has there been any explantion yet as to why the speakers which were installed after the first shooting, did not warn people for over 2 hours after the first shooting?
 

Shallow

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #109 on: April 19, 2007, 07:56:38 AM »
we had a gun amnesty and people had to hand in all their guns (except for ones being left at a shooting range) and now we haven't had a massacre since


That's the same logic that republicans use for terrorist attacks; "well we got hit on 9/11 then Bush implemented the patriot act and we invaded Iraq because they sponsored the attacks and we haven't had an attack since". Remember the Simpsons episode where a bear gets loos in town and the town responds with raising taxes to start up a bear patrol police unit. That's what things like this are; Bear Patrol. They take things that are rare occassions but devastating and they fool the people in their time of grief, then they strip them of rights and money and they laugh all the way to the bank praising the idea that it never happened again.

Of course in your case you may be a liar. I take it you are talking about Martin John Bryant who killed so many in 96. Well 5 years before that Wade Frankum did something of the sort at the Strathfield Plaza. 4 or 5 years before that in 87 Frank Vitkovic did something of the sort on Queen Street. That same year was the Hoddle Street massacre. But before '87 there was nothing of the sort in Australia. Every other massacre had to with a war of some kid, whether it be a land war or a gang war. So instead of looking to see how it was handled after '96 with Bryant why don't people focus on what happened before '87 and why so many years went by with out incident. I mean over 100 years of nothing like this when guns were readily aquired and used in the old days compared to 11 years? Does that make sense?

By the way, how is it that you failed to mention the Monash University incident that happened about 4 or 5 years after Bryant?  Huan Yun Xiang had 5 hand guns at his disposal and walked into a classroom. 2 were killed and 5 were wounded. Why weren't more killed? Because when he stopped to reload after the first set of shots a lecturer who had been shot grabbed his hand while a king fu trained student tackled him. If not for these brave men who acted when the opportunity came then a lot more would have died. So much for you amnesty theory since the two gun incidents surrounding Bryant came about 5 or 6 years before and 5 or 6 years after Bryant. If something like this happens again this year or in '08 then I suggest you go to your government and demand a revision of the bear patrol act.
 

virtuoso

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #110 on: April 19, 2007, 09:27:41 AM »
Exactly the fear factor is hyped up to manipulate the populous into clamouring for some kind of protection. When the government grants this protect it only gives the illusion of protection which is reinforced by self congratulatory reminders that since this legislation has come in there have been no more cases so look once again we have kept you safe.  This then acts as a spur for people to be even more accepting to sacrifice yet more of their rights all in the name of protection. It is a conspiracy theory to suggest that surrendering your rights keep you safe and yet unfortunately people will accept this notion whole heartedly and yet will attack anything other than this as a conspiracy theorist. I am sure there are those who genuinely believe they are doing the right thing and are just misguided (anti gun lobbying groups) parents etc but as far as the fear rampers are concerned, they know exactly what they are doing.

The australian is the most ridiculous example of them all I agree and Dunblane for that matter
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 09:39:20 AM by virtuoso »
 

Mr. O

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #111 on: April 19, 2007, 02:20:06 PM »
This campus shooting events are getting lot more ridiculus than before.  It's like they do it every 3 to 5 years.  Is it me or is it that people don't know how to fuckin' deal with their sorry ass problems.  I pretty much had it with these dumb ass kids doing dumb shit for the the wrong reasons. 
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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #112 on: April 19, 2007, 02:44:06 PM »
Actually, I don't agree with the idea that all guns should be banned because of a spree killing like this.  Obviously, spree killings are bad, but the problem is that (1.) They are generally not very common and account for a nearly invisible fraction of homicides, and (2.) I think spree killers are more likely to pursue other methods of killing lots of people if guns aren't available.  Pipe bombs and other improvised explosive devices have been used in a large number of mass killings, so I don't think it's unlikely somebody who has a personal vendetta against the world would use those if they had to.  It's a knee-jerk reaction to ban ALL guns because of one isolated incident, and the British situation is a good example of this.  Thomas Hamilton, the guy responsible for Dunblane, killed 16 kids with a pair of (I think) Browning 9-mm pistols.  What if he'd instead loaded his car with gasoline and drove it into a school bus, which would cause the bus to blow up and probably kill all the dozens of kids on board?  You wouldn't ban cars and gasoline in that case, would you?  Furthermore, some of Hamilton's neighbors had warned the police he was mentally unstable (he was apparently a paedophile) and should have his firearms license revoked, but those claims were dismissed.

The problem I have with the United States is the fact that the availability of guns is having a significant effect on total violent crime and facilitating the deaths of 30,000 people a year.  If the 30,000 gun deaths in the U.S. were reduced to European levels and incidents like the Virginia Tech massacre were the rare exceptions, I would oppose somebody wanting to ban guns because of incidents like that.  But in 2 years in the U.S., the same number of Americans die as died during the entire Vietnam War, and that's not acceptable.  Most types of criminals would not be able to carry out their usual crimes without guns.  A mugger with a knife isn't going to be as effective as one with a pistol, for example.  The number of people who die in America because of guns can and SHOULD be reduced simply because it doesn't make sense to allow such easy access to weapons.

If no gun was available to buy legally, he'd buy it illegally.

But that is not true.  You have yet to tell me...where would the illegal gun come from?  I suppose there's black market arms dealers who import stolen Soviet-era Kalashnikov rifles and RPGs into the United States the way they do in Africa and South America and the Middle East?  I sure haven't heard of that.  This dude was some fucking nerd with a small dick, not a terrorist or a mafioso.  When guns are very hard to get legally, the only criminals that can get them are the ones who are extremely well connected.  I say this after months running guns for the Real IRA in Belfast.

Also, I'm sure you've heard of the National Firearms Act, the one which places very severe restrictions on machine gun ownership in the United States.  In order to buy a machine gun (or any other "Class III" weapon) in the United States, you have to be investigated throughly by the ATF.  It takes months to do the background checks and have the gun sent to the buyer, plus it's registered with the ATF and owners are required to notify them if the weapon gets lost or stolen.  And guess what?  Since 1934 (when the NFA was first enacted), not a single legally-owned machine gun has been used to commit a crime in the U.S., and (despite what you see in movies) even the illegal use of machine guns by gangstas here is extremely rare.  Doesn't that prove that gun control DOES work?  If ALL firearms (or at least, handguns and the semi-automatic assault rifles) in the U.S. were subject to something like the NFA, isn't it a safe bet that the same thing would happen?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 03:18:15 PM by Guerilla_From_Tha_Mist »
 

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #113 on: April 19, 2007, 03:04:17 PM »
wow

on CNN there are people saying 'if america has less strenuous gun laws, and everyone carried a gun, this may have never happened'

americans are fuckin retarded, you guys really think like that?

we had a massacre here in 1996, 35 dead, the guy had a 98% hit accuracy on head shots. we had a gun amnesty and people had to hand in all their guns (except for ones being left at a shooting range) and now we haven't had a massacre since

haha
 

Shallow

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #114 on: April 19, 2007, 03:33:58 PM »
Actually, I don't agree with the idea that all guns should be banned because of a spree killing like this.  Obviously, spree killings are bad, but the problem is that (1.) They are generally not very common and account for a nearly invisible fraction of homicides, and (2.) I think spree killers are more likely to pursue other methods of killing lots of people if guns aren't available.  Pipe bombs and other improvised explosive devices have been used in a large number of mass killings, so I don't think it's unlikely somebody who has a personal vendetta against the world would use those if they had to.  It's a knee-jerk reaction to ban ALL guns because of one isolated incident, and the British situation is a good example of this.  Thomas Hamilton, the guy responsible for Dunblane, killed 16 kids with a pair of (I think) Browning 9-mm pistols.  What if he'd instead loaded his car with gasoline and drove it into a school bus, which would cause the bus to blow up and probably kill all the dozens of kids on board?  You wouldn't ban cars and gasoline in that case, would you?  Furthermore, some of Hamilton's neighbors had warned the police he was mentally unstable (he was apparently a paedophile) and should have his firearms license revoked, but those claims were dismissed.

The problem I have with the United States is the fact that the availability of guns is having a significant effect on total violent crime and facilitating the deaths of 30,000 people a year.  If the 30,000 gun deaths in the U.S. were reduced to European levels and incidents like the Virginia Tech massacre were the rare exceptions, I would oppose somebody wanting to ban guns because of incidents like that.  But in 2 years in the U.S., the same number of Americans die as died during the entire Vietnam War, and that's not acceptable.  Most types of criminals would not be able to carry out their usual crimes without guns.  A mugger with a knife isn't going to be as effective as one with a pistol, for example.  The number of people who die in America because of guns can and SHOULD be reduced simply because it doesn't make sense to allow such easy access to weapons.

If no gun was available to buy legally, he'd buy it illegally.

But that is not true.  You have yet to tell me...where would the illegal gun come from?  I suppose there's black market arms dealers who import stolen Soviet-era Kalashnikov rifles and RPGs into the United States the way they do in Africa and South America and the Middle East?  I sure haven't heard of that.  This dude was some fucking nerd with a small dick, not a terrorist or a mafioso.  When guns are very hard to get legally, the only criminals that can get them are the ones who are extremely well connected.  I say this after months running guns for the Real IRA in Belfast.

Also, I'm sure you've heard of the National Firearms Act, the one which places very severe restrictions on machine gun ownership in the United States.  In order to buy a machine gun (or any other "Class III" weapon) in the United States, you have to be investigated throughly by the ATF.  It takes months to do the background checks and have the gun sent to the buyer, plus it's registered with the ATF and owners are required to notify them if the weapon gets lost or stolen.  And guess what?  Since 1934 (when the NFA was first enacted), not a single legally-owned machine gun has been used to commit a crime in the U.S., and (despite what you see in movies) even the illegal use of machine guns by gangstas here is extremely rare.  Doesn't that prove that gun control DOES work?  If ALL firearms (or at least, handguns and the semi-automatic assault rifles) in the U.S. were subject to something like the NFA, isn't it a safe bet that the same thing would happen?


Your first half of this post pretty much said exactly what I said about people like this guy finding other, potentially more dangerous methods to hurt people,  so we don't really disagree on all that much. But as for your machine gun comparison, here is what I think is the difference; Americans has such a tradition when it comes to guns, whether it be collecting, hunting, or home safety. The market is just too strong and too willing to pay for organized crime smugglers to ignore. It's fine now because most of it is legal. Machine guns aren't used for anything historically but combat. They were never part of the culture, so the market isn't there for them. How many people ever really kept machine guns around the house? Too Americans would go crazy if you just took away all the guns.

The same people that bring in the cocaine and heroin would bring in guns and the same people that sell the coke and heroin would sell the guns, so if this kid Cho could find a coke dealer he'd be able to find a gun link.


All that being said, whether you are right or I am right. We both agree that it would not have prevented a mass murder at Virginia.
 

Chief

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #115 on: April 19, 2007, 08:22:09 PM »
wow

on CNN there are people saying 'if america has less strenuous gun laws, and everyone carried a gun, this may have never happened'

americans are fuckin retarded, you guys really think like that?


haha


yeah man, the whole gun mentality i'll never understand.. it's FUCKING CRAZY.

 

AndrE16686

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #116 on: April 19, 2007, 08:34:08 PM »
we had a gun amnesty and people had to hand in all their guns (except for ones being left at a shooting range) and now we haven't had a massacre since


That's the same logic that republicans use for terrorist attacks; "well we got hit on 9/11 then Bush implemented the patriot act and we invaded Iraq because they sponsored the attacks and we haven't had an attack since". Remember the Simpsons episode where a bear gets loos in town and the town responds with raising taxes to start up a bear patrol police unit. That's what things like this are; Bear Patrol. They take things that are rare occassions but devastating and they fool the people in their time of grief, then they strip them of rights and money and they laugh all the way to the bank praising the idea that it never happened again.

Of course in your case you may be a liar. I take it you are talking about Martin John Bryant who killed so many in 96. Well 5 years before that Wade Frankum did something of the sort at the Strathfield Plaza. 4 or 5 years before that in 87 Frank Vitkovic did something of the sort on Queen Street. That same year was the Hoddle Street massacre. But before '87 there was nothing of the sort in Australia. Every other massacre had to with a war of some kid, whether it be a land war or a gang war. So instead of looking to see how it was handled after '96 with Bryant why don't people focus on what happened before '87 and why so many years went by with out incident. I mean over 100 years of nothing like this when guns were readily aquired and used in the old days compared to 11 years? Does that make sense?

By the way, how is it that you failed to mention the Monash University incident that happened about 4 or 5 years after Bryant?  Huan Yun Xiang had 5 hand guns at his disposal and walked into a classroom. 2 were killed and 5 were wounded. Why weren't more killed? Because when he stopped to reload after the first set of shots a lecturer who had been shot grabbed his hand while a king fu trained student tackled him. If not for these brave men who acted when the opportunity came then a lot more would have died. So much for you amnesty theory since the two gun incidents surrounding Bryant came about 5 or 6 years before and 5 or 6 years after Bryant. If something like this happens again this year or in '08 then I suggest you go to your government and demand a revision of the bear patrol act.


I think every Australian will agree, we are safer from gun violence because we have strict gun laws. there may still be killings, but less then what would be if guns were readily available, It really isn't that hard to understand. Same thing with weed, although I love weed and smoke it heavily (decriminalised) I would not vote to legalise it, if it was legal it would be an even bigger problem.


But word. I get what you're saying:

The market is just too strong and too willing to pay for organized crime smugglers to ignore. It's fine now because most of it is legal. Machine guns aren't used for anything historically but combat. They were never part of the culture, so the market isn't there for them. How many people ever really kept machine guns around the house? Too Americans would go crazy if you just took away all the guns.

The same people that bring in the cocaine and heroin would bring in guns and the same people that sell the coke and heroin would sell the guns, so if this kid Cho could find a coke dealer he'd be able to find a gun link.


All that being said, whether you are right or I am right. We both agree that it would not have prevented a mass murder at Virginia.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 08:41:28 PM by Loco is tha motion... »
 

Fuck Your Existence

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #117 on: April 20, 2007, 01:04:36 AM »
i dont know wtf to think anymore on the real..some kid just got busted on right across the street today..i was just chillin and heard "pop,pop,pop"..i turned the t.v. off heard someone say somethin and it was quiet like a muh fucker. So i wasnt trippin cuz i hear gunshots all the damn time...then what seemed like forever(almost forgot about the shots) i heard the cops actin like they give a shit mashin down the street..me and my girl bail outside and some teenage dude is layin down in a driveway across the street...crazy ass shit. Of course nobody seen shit but there was a gang of fools outside. Crazy shit,i dont know what the solution is but the people that got elected to handle this shit damn sure dont know either....
 

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Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #118 on: April 20, 2007, 02:27:25 PM »
The wild wild amerikkka at its best!
I like amerikka, black on black crime,guns all over the place,crooked cops, c.i.a providin cocaine to ghetto youths and so on
beautiful country for sho
 

Al Bundy

Re: Virginia: 32 Shot Dead In School Shootout
« Reply #119 on: April 24, 2007, 02:08:31 AM »
The wild wild amerikkka at its best!
I like amerikka, black on black crime,guns all over the place,crooked cops, c.i.a providin cocaine to ghetto youths and so on
beautiful country for sho


and you live in a perfect world?