eminem Recovery still selling

[weedhead]

The bottom line is he is a relevant marketable star based on his art, rather than his celebrity. People like the songs so they buy the music. What a novel idea. If clowns like Kanye, Jay Z, and Drake spent more time making music they can sell and less time selling themselves as artists with out the art.

There's more to it than that. Kanye West put out an album that had the best critical reception in years and its selling nothing like Ems. Do you really believe that if Jay-Z put out an album on the level of The Blueprint or Reasonable Doubt that it would have monster sales? Its about Eminem being Eminem, not about his music being better than others (which it isn't)

I'm not talking about something being great. I'm talking about something being a hit. I can name you plenty of Niel Young albums that get praised across the board, even 30 years later but they couldn't sell for shit. Nothing I've heard by Kanye since Gold Digger has been a hit. Jay Z had the NY song but that's it.

The Em and Rihanna song was a hit and that's why it sold where albums like Relapse could not. I'd argue that Encore didn't really have a hit either but he was so famous and hot during that release that he could have released anything and it would have sold. Of course who he is has something to do with it, but if a completely new artist released the exact same song with Rihanna it still would have done better than anything I've heard so far on Kanye's album.

You never make any sense with your posts. How can Gold Digger be Ye's last hit? You're completely skipping over the rest of his albums. Love Lockdown? Heartless? Stronger? Flashing Lights? Good Life? Jay-Z's last album had Empire State of Mind, Young Forever and Run This Town. Cmon now.

And honestly, if a completely new artist had released the same song I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't chart at all. If it had, it wouldn't be a monster. The song was big on account of Eminem's star power. You just admitted yourself that he can release anything and sell (which is what I feel he did).

I personally can name every track from Reasonable to Blueprint, but I haven't bought or listen to any Jay albums since then, and I cannot really think of a single hit he's had since then.

This says it all right here. If you choose to ignore the music that artists put out then that's on you. The fact remains that they have continued to be successful. Fyi, both Empire State of Mind and Run This Town charted higher than any song from the period in in which you chose to listen to Jay albums.

You sound like you're backpedalling from what you originally said.

"If clowns like Kanye, Jay Z, and Drake spent more time making music they can sell and less time selling themselves as artists with out the art."

I think this requires some kind of explanation. You talk about the art in music, but then you go on to say you're talking about "hits". You'd really rather see Kanye make a pop song with Rihanna on the hook than come out with an amazing album? That perception is what's taking the art out of the music, if anything.

And just for kicks I'd just like to point out something I've noticed, that in every discussion without fail you bring up an artist completely unrelated to hip hop. Its not really a good look for a hip hop discussion.

I tried to tell him..he really dont fuck with hiphop...he fronting.

[Shallow]

You never make any sense with your posts. How can Gold Digger be Ye's last hit? You're completely skipping over the rest of his albums. Love Lockdown? Heartless? Stronger? Flashing Lights? Good Life? Jay-Z's last album had Empire State of Mind, Young Forever and Run This Town. Cmon now.

And honestly, if a completely new artist had released the same song I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't chart at all. If it had, it wouldn't be a monster. The song was big on account of Eminem's star power. You just admitted yourself that he can release anything and sell (which is what I feel he did).

I know stronger but more as a daft punk song and that's about it. I mentioned Empire State of Mind as being a hit already. Run This Town is a decent single but not a hit. Hard Knock Life was a hit. Eminem showed us with Relapse that he can't just release anything. There's no hits on that album and the sales suffered. He came back with a hit on Recovery and the sales went way up.

This says it all right here. If you choose to ignore the music that artists put out then that's on you. The fact remains that they have continued to be successful. Fyi, both Empire State of Mind and Run This Town charted higher than any song from the period in in which you chose to listen to Jay albums.

You sound like you're backpedalling from what you originally said.

"If clowns like Kanye, Jay Z, and Drake spent more time making music they can sell and less time selling themselves as artists with out the art."

I think this requires some kind of explanation. You talk about the art in music, but then you go on to say you're talking about "hits". You'd really rather see Kanye make a pop song with Rihanna on the hook than come out with an amazing album? That perception is what's taking the art out of the music, if anything.

And just for kicks I'd just like to point out something I've noticed, that in every discussion without fail you bring up an artist completely unrelated to hip hop. Its not really a good look for a hip hop discussion.

Charting higher and selling albums with a single are different things. There's no point talking about Empire because I've already mentioned it as a hit. But Run This Town as nice as it sounds never did for Jay Z what lil orphan Annie did. It may me a better complimentary single than a few tracks on Vol 2 but it's not an album driving single.

I personally don't care what they do, or what kinds of albums they release. I'm just saying if they want sales they need to focus on hits. If they want artistic praise in the white music journalist world then they just need to brag about how good they are and imply racism as any reason why you don't like the album.

Kanye has never come close to a masterpiece album. He thinks he has, and he's convinced a lot of people he has but he hasn't. Neither has Jay. And even mentioning Drake is an insult to the word masterpiece. For the record, Eminem hasn't either. I listen to a lot of albums from a lot of genres and I'm not bias. The second the art takes a back seat to the artist the album suffers. Illmatic is a masterpiece. 36 Chambers as well. Maybe the Makaveli album. But College Dropout? Reasonable Doubt? No fucking way. They're nice albums to listen to and you can get a lot from them but in the end they don't stand up as complete albums; just nice compilations of songs.

If I made a film with the idea that I want to create the 25 best scenes I could film and just threw them together with out a common theme or focus connecting them the film would suck, no mater how good each scene was. Kanye doesn't understand that. Nas probably didn't either at 19 years old; but Nas, and RZA had what they call a muse guiding their art. It's something much greater than anything thing the conscious mind can think up. Bob Dylan had it in the 60s. Jay Z's main purpose was business, not art, and business came first. With Kanye I think it's fame first, then art. Nas at 19 was trying to be great and the words and flows came from the heavens. Once he reached success and fame his focus changed and his muse was gone. More of his songs and albums came from the head rather than the heart, and he never reached a masterpiece level again.

I don't need albums to have hits. In Utero is a much better Nirvana album than never mind but Nevermind had way more hits. Vs is better than Ten in the Pearl Jam world. But when one album sells and another doesn't you can blame race or fame or whatever you want, but in the end if you don't have any hits, you won't sell. But being great is something completely different. I'm not back pedalling at all. I'm telling you that critical success and commercial success are different entities.

Darkness on the Edge of Town is my favourite album of all time and there isn't a real hit on the damn thing.

[Action!]

strong post

[blazeindave213]

who is pearl jam 

[SCREWFACE]

I know stronger but more as a daft punk song and that's about it.

lmao.

so you refer to every rap song as the original sampled artists? or did sampling daft punk just cripple your lil world so much that you couldnt even just call it a kanye song?

[Shallow]

I know stronger but more as a daft punk song and that's about it.

lmao.

so you refer to every rap song as the original sampled artists? or did sampling daft punk just cripple your lil world so much that you couldnt even just call it a kanye song?

Sampling is one thing, lifting an entire song that was recently released and rapping over it is ridiculous. If Daft Punk took a very famous Snoop line and had someone else rap it over one of their tracks and the whole song was built of that line and Snoop's style I'd call it a Snoop song.

You're reaching for something that isn't there. I don't hate hip hop or rappers. I spend too much time hating Tom Brady to waste any time on them. And I bash Jimmy Page on here way more than I bash Kanye. And I think it's even funnier that when Good Charlotte or whoever used a Jay Z line in their that idiot Kanye took offense and pointed it out. But when he completely listed and looped Chicago by Niel Young and his buddies and gave no credit what so ever that was art? The guy is a dilluted twit, and he's not even a very good artist. He's just very popular for being an artist, but he's the Dan Brown or Paul Haggis of the music world. He releases garbage and is good at making people think it's gold.

His next album should be called The Five Iron Pyrite Stars and I'd actually have some respect for him.

[13th Duke]

I know stronger but more as a daft punk song and that's about it.

lmao.

so you refer to every rap song as the original sampled artists? or did sampling daft punk just cripple your lil world so much that you couldnt even just call it a kanye song?

to be fair, that particular song was a straight jacking. Kanye showed laziness there.

[No Compute]

I know stronger but more as a daft punk song and that's about it.

lmao.

so you refer to every rap song as the original sampled artists? or did sampling daft punk just cripple your lil world so much that you couldnt even just call it a kanye song?

to be fair, that particular song was a straight jacking. Kanye showed laziness there.

Laziness all round, here's the original:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4odwk16cDNo" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4odwk16cDNo</a>

[Action!]

i'd say it's cause eminem is white and not his talent.  everyone knows that's the truth but it's not the popular opinion

[LyRiCaL_G]

ummm eminem has not sold anywhere near 5 million in the states. He sold 3.42million at the end of 2010. So unless he managed to sell another 2 million records somwhere in the last couple of weeks...he has not!

Regardless, eminem has a lot going for him when it comes to selling music and everyone knows the reasons. His fan base etc.

But whether most people like it or not, the biggest reason the album sold was because of a rihanna hook. I never even dug the song that much but i heard that hook SO MANY times, even i know the song just because of the hook. Say what you want but if eminem said the exact same bars, but had another hook by somone unknown, it would not have done those numbers. The hook is what generally sells a song in mainstream. Im not simply saying that you take off eminem and have the same hook and by rihanna and it'd still be huge because im not deluded and without question eminem is huge and everyone white in hiphop seems to love eminem, buy his cds and know of doctor dre but nobody else outside that camp. So you got the biggest name in the industry right now in eminem with the hottest singer right now who is young/fine and got a story recently too with the whole chris brown shit and then eminems story too and you got massive written all over it aslong as someone comes through. And rihanna did.

The song is huge because of her. Say what you want but everyone does the same thing, tries jumping on those who are hot or making hits in the present time to make them hits. Even eminem.

as for kanye, his new album>>>recovery.

[LyRiCaL_G]

i'd say it's cause eminem is white and not his talent.  everyone knows that's the truth but it's not the popular opinion

Im pretty sure everyone who aint white knows eminem sells a lot more than anybody else with a large part to do with his skin tone.

Whether some of y'all white cats like to believe that or not is another thing all together.

But dude does have talent, i give him that.

That being said, i'd still take a washed up dre detox album anyday over anything eminem is bringing out if that ever hits the light.

[Action!]

Wait, let me re-phrase that.

Eminem is as talented as the best but the rest will unlikely sell like Eminem because they're not white. 

[Chamillitary Click]

Relapse didn't sell like Recovery, so explain that. Sure, him being white has something to do with it, but it's about major singles. Those two songs were on every radio station, every fifteen minutes.

Plus, to be honest, if you like Eminem's singles, you're going to like a majority of the album. Eminem has proven through every album, even if he's fallen off, that he makes nearly every song on the album worth listening to. Sure, you have your exceptions before you all get angry over this & start saying "Ass Like That" & songs off Relapse.

Bottom line, if you like the single that Eminem puts out for his album, you're nearly guaranteed to like the entire album. & if you know you're going to get seventeen songs you like on one album, you're more inclined to buy it.

An artist like T.I. or Ludacris or Fabolous, they give you like three or four songs that you fuck with, a solid single to bump & then the rest is just not fully there; it's not worth to cop, when you know that you're not getting sixteen songs that you like, only four.

Also, I'm speaking for the general public & the average rap fan, not hardcore Hip Hop fans who believe that their favorite underground artist should be doing a million in the first week. The World is bigger then a few Hip Hop forums who don't think some mainstream artists deserve to sell as many records because it's "too poppy" or whatever. The objective of making music, especially Hip Hop artists who rap song in & song out about it, is making money. It's what the public wants, not what you want.

[Action!]

Yes, Relapse numbers were disappointing for Eminem but even then they out sold the rest of hip-hop.

Let me break down to you,

America has a population of about 300 million people.  Of that 300 million about 75 percent is "white".  That means 225 million Americans are "white".  12 percent of the population is "black."  That's about 36 million people.  

Since 1999 hip-hop as a genre consisted of an estimated 10% of cd sales.  At it's peak in 2002 it was 13.8% of total sales.

Who buys music?
According to the RIAA the largest consuming age is between 15-19 and 20-24.  They consist of 12.6% each of cds bought, about 25% of cd sales occur then.  Basically, the data shows consistent buying of cds acrossing their age groups until age 45.  The data shows  general decline in cd sales with the introduction of the internet.

Just based on these numbers alone it makes sense that Eminem is the highest selling talented MC.  His content doesn't alienate the largest consumer base (white people in their teens to twenties).  

Look,

A) He isn't dropping nigga (at one point alienated consumers - think late 80s. early 90s)
B) His content (disgruntled feelings; broken home; not being understand) is relatable
C) He's obviously talented
D) He was co-signed by an established name of great talent/respect -Dr.Dre
E) His skin color sealed the deal

It allows him to creates a necessary special bond where the largest consumer base may connect to him and feel "entertained."  He communicates struggle that they can connect - not necessary his "trailer trash" situation but the emotions behind those situations (and, I would argue some subject matter such as an indifference to authority/his parents).  




Population statistics source:
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-context=dt&-ds_name=ACS_2009_1YR_G00_&-mt_name=ACS_2009_1YR_G2000_B02001&-CONTEXT=dt&-tree_id=306&-redoLog=true&-all_geo_types=N&-currentselections=ACS_2006_EST_G2000_B02001&-geo_id=01000US&-search_results=01000US&-format=&-_lang=en


CD statistics source:
http://www.riaa.com/keystatistics.php?content_selector=consumertrends

[Action!]

What Dr.Dre/afthermath/Jimmy iovine/interscope did for hip-hop with Eminem is great even if he isn't always my cup of tea.  He broke down barriers and took hip-hop to another level by expanding it's reach even if it's in the home of some kid who only pays attention to eminem because he's white.

Without Eminem Jay-Z wouldn't be able to be this mystical figure he is today.   Eminem's presence changed the game for the best.

It's impressive his album is still moving units and it's for the best because making money allows investment into other artist I want to see moved like Slaughterhouse.

Money is the backbone of the game, not love because that shit don't pay bills and it's not some arching conspiracy like jrome likes to think it is


and, yes, i do agree with cham that singles matter