It's May 16, 2024, 09:54:50 AM
Okay then how many people committed suicide in Seattle after Griffey left? Over or under 60?
Quote from: Iveus on June 28, 2013, 08:59:51 AMOkay then how many people committed suicide in Seattle after Griffey left? Over or under 60?Over. As an Angel fan, I celebrated. I still pray for those in Seattle after that.
Well I saw the All Star Announcement Show and I'm glad to see Iwakuma make it.I'm also glad to see Gomez and Encarnacion make it too.Although I'm extremely disheartened at how Derek Jeter was snubbed. Truly, utterly shocked. I lost all faith in humanity when I saw that.And as expected the MLB took the easy route and made Puig the final fan vote so the naysayers can't complain about Bochy putting him in.I just hope that David Robertson makes it though. There's not enough Yankees on the roster.#HighSocksForVotes
Here's a little something that's been on my mind for a while.I'm sure all of us baseball fans have heard arguments against Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens (and A-Rods) HoF cases with the ever so popular "he cheated, why should we honor him?" line. Then it hit me, why can't we honor cheaters even though we honor those in the hall who never played against black/Latino/Hispanic/Asian players, those who were noted gamblers, those who were KKK members, those who were alcoholics and those who were greenies?How can we say that we have to preserve the integrity of Major League Baseball when it already flew out the window over a century ago?
Quote from: Iveus on July 09, 2013, 08:03:59 PMHere's a little something that's been on my mind for a while.I'm sure all of us baseball fans have heard arguments against Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens (and A-Rods) HoF cases with the ever so popular "he cheated, why should we honor him?" line. Then it hit me, why can't we honor cheaters even though we honor those in the hall who never played against black/Latino/Hispanic/Asian players, those who were noted gamblers, those who were KKK members, those who were alcoholics and those who were greenies?How can we say that we have to preserve the integrity of Major League Baseball when it already flew out the window over a century ago?good point.what asian and latino player you talkin bout though?
That's a great point. To play devil's advocate I'd say that times were a lot different in the past, not only in terms of standards of the game (IE Ped's running rampant) but laws and society in general, excluding your gambling point. I don't disagree for the most part though. My one big thing against a lot of the steroid guys is how full of shit so many of them are for lying about it repeatedly. I have zero issues with a guy making a mistake and owning up to it, but when someone is just repeatedly dishonest it rubs me the wrong way. In that sense, I don't mind seeing some of them excluded, but at the same time I wouldn't be the least bit upset if they made it either.
good point.what asian and latino player you talkin bout though?
Quote from: Remedy360 on July 10, 2013, 12:51:26 AMThat's a great point. To play devil's advocate I'd say that times were a lot different in the past, not only in terms of standards of the game (IE Ped's running rampant) but laws and society in general, excluding your gambling point. I don't disagree for the most part though. My one big thing against a lot of the steroid guys is how full of shit so many of them are for lying about it repeatedly. I have zero issues with a guy making a mistake and owning up to it, but when someone is just repeatedly dishonest it rubs me the wrong way. In that sense, I don't mind seeing some of them excluded, but at the same time I wouldn't be the least bit upset if they made it either. Yeah I'm aware of how different society was back then. Separating races was pretty normal, some players needed to gamble in order to put food on the table etc... but at the same time if people want to say that they hate steroid users for cheating and not having morals, a lot of people we celebrate today as some of the best players of all time weren't exactly these perfect angels regardless if their behavior was the norm in society back then. And it just seems weird to me that some people act so hypocritical and are like "we're willing to accept them because that was the culture back then" but then say "but the steroid era is different" even though it was still a culture that was part of things they were back then (and probably still are).That said, you bring up a very good point about how steroid users who don't openly admit that they took PEDs and keep on lying to people isn't exactly helping their cause and making shit worse. And I'm not condoning the use of PEDs, although I think making it a legal substance in baseball is inevitable, but I'm just pointing out that the anti-PED arguments are very flawed.Although another problem is that pro-PED arguments have their fair share of flaws as well and this whole issue just ends up being a big old joke.Quote from: Russell Bell on July 10, 2013, 12:56:01 AMgood point.what asian and latino player you talkin bout though?Nah man, I was just talking about how some Hall Of Famers never played against non-white people. At least not in the major leagues.Like Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson and Babe Ruth never faced non-whites except for a few exhibition games against the negro league players and in various countries.
What I was trying to get at with the whole society/culture thing was that steroids were certainly a part of baseball culture, but the racism, exclusion, etc that existed was a part of society as a whole. That's not to say that it shouldn't be recognized in baseball's history, but comparing the culture of PED's to something as big as that seems like comparing apples and oranges to me.